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Thread: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

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    Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    Greetings!

    I have moved this topic to the Translate This! and off of the General Discussion as "msbll" indicated that I did not have the correct Russian to English translation for the Russian proverb:

    • Соловья́ ба́снями не ко́рмят.
    o Transliteration: Solov'ya basnyami ne kormyat.
    o Translation: The nightingale can't be fed by fables

    As such, I figured I should check with all of you lovely people about the other ones that I have selected so far as they came from the same document.

    So, below are the nine proverbs that I have selected as of this morning and the corresponding chapter numbers to make it easier for everyone to keep them straight.

    If you would be kind enough to review them and let me know if the translations from not only Russian to English are correct, but also the transliteration - that would be too fantastic! Thanks, Rockzmom


    Chapter 11
    • У́мный в го́ру не пойдёт, у́мный го́ру обойдёт.
    o Transliteration: Umnyy v goru ne poydyot, umnyy goru oboydyot.
    o Translation: A smart person will not climb a mountain; A smart person will go around it.

    Chapter 13
    • Из огня́ да в полымя́.
    o Transliteration: Iz ognya da v polymya.
    o Translation: From fire to flame.

    Chapter 14
    • От ма́ленькой и́скры большо́й пожа́р быва́ет.
    o Transliteration: Ot malen'koy iskry bol'shoy pozhar byvayet.
    o Translation: A little spark may cause a big fire.

    Chapter 15??
    • Охо́та пу́ще нево́ли.
    o Transliteration: Okhota pusche nevoli.
    o Translation: Desire is worse than compulsion.

    Chapter 16
    • Без кота́ мыша́м раздо́лье.
    o Transliteration: Bez kota mysham razdol'ye.
    o Translation: Without a cat mice have no restrictions.

    Chapter 17
    • Болту́н — нахо́дка для шпио́на.
    o Transliteration: Boltun — nakhodka dlya shpiona.
    o Translation: A chatterbox is a treasure for a spy.

    Chapter 18
    • Ме́ньше зна́ешь — кре́пче спишь.
    o Transliteration: Men'she znayesh' — krepche spish'.
    o Translation: The less you know, the more soundly you sleep.

    Chapter 19
    • Да́льше с глаз - бли́же к се́рдцу.
    o Transliteration: Dal'she s glaz - blizhe k serdtsu.
    o Translation: Further from the eye - closer to the heart.


    Undecided 1
    • Пришла́ беда́, отворя́й ворота́.
    o Transliteration: Prishla beda, otvoryay vorota.
    o Translation: Trouble is here, so open the gates.
    I only speak two languages, English and bad English.
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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    Quote Originally Posted by rockzmom
    If you would be kind enough to review them and let me know if the translations from not only Russian to English are correct, but also the transliteration - that would be too fantastic!
    It isn't possible to "check" the correctness of the transliteration because there are no any rules for transliterating from Russian into Latin letters. In any case transliterations look quite ugly.

    Desire is worse than compulsion.
    I'd say it's "desire is stronger than compulsion".

    • Да́льше с глаз - бли́же к се́рдцу.
    o Transliteration: Dal'she s glaz - blizhe k serdtsu.
    o Translation: Further from the eye - closer to the heart.
    Never heard this one. Very well-known is a proverb with quite the opposite meaning: С глаз долой - из сердца вон. (Out of sight, out of heart).
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    But what about Настоящая любовь познаётся на расстоянии - True love you could tell from a distance?
    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    Quote Originally Posted by Lampada
    But what about Настоящая любовь познаётся на расстоянии - True love you could tell from a distance?
    I just meant that I never heard the "Дальше с глаз - ближе к сердцу".
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    [quote="Оля"]because there are no any rules for transliterating from Russian into Latin letters. In any case transliterations look quite ugly.

    There are no rules??? I did not know this. I feel even more stupid.
    I only speak two languages, English and bad English.
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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    Quote Originally Posted by rockzmom
    There are no rules???
    Of course not. Why should be? Russain doesn't use Latin letters, it uses Cyrillic; so there are no rules for writing with Latin letters in Russian.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Quote Originally Posted by rockzmom
    There are no rules???
    Of course not. Why should be? Russain doesn't use Latin letters, it uses Cyrillic; so there are no rules for writing with Latin letters in Russian.
    You make me laugh, I am not so far gone that I don't know Russian is Cyrillic. I'm close, but not that bad.

    Okay, if you don't mind... please take a look at this Web site and maybe you will understand why I would think that there would be a standard for translating into a tranliteration ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_transliteration
    I only speak two languages, English and bad English.
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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    I think there are direct analogues in English for the following ones:
    Chapter 13
    • Из огня́ да в полымя́.
    o Transliteration: Iz ognya da v polymya.
    o Translation: From fire to flame. Out of the frying pan into the fire
    Undecided 1
    • Пришла́ беда́, отворя́й ворота́.
    o Transliteration: Prishla beda, otvoryay vorota.
    o Translation: Trouble is here, so open the gates. It never rains but it pours

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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    I am not so far gone that I don't know Russian is Cyrillic
    I didn't think you didn't know that. But many foreigners think that even if Russian is Cyrillic, it can and should use Latin letters because Latin is the main alphabet in the world, and so on. Some learners seriously ask, "Can I learn Russian without learning Cyrillic?", and that doesn't make me laugh, you know...
    I actually do not see any use in a tranliteration - it even does not convey the pronunciation anyway.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    i dont know where you got those translations, but they suck - bad. i mean when was the last time you heard a native english speaker say "trouble is here so open the gates". didnt think so. for some there are more standardized translations which i will take from my русские и английские пословицы и поговорки book, for others, just what i think sounds best. so, this is what i would say:

    У́мный в го́ру не пойдёт, у́мный го́ру обойдёт.
    o Translation: smart people dont climb mountains, they go around them

    Chapter 13
    • Из огня́ да в полымя́.
    out of the frying pan, into the fire

    Chapter 14
    • От ма́ленькой и́скры большо́й пожа́р быва́ет.
    small sparks can start big fires

    Chapter 15??
    • Охо́та пу́ще нево́ли. (lit. will is stronger than necessity)
    where there's a will (, there's a way )

    Chapter 16
    • Без кота́ мыша́м раздо́лье.
    Translation: Without a cat mice have no restrictions. (oh common!) - when the cat's away, the mice will play

    Chapter 17
    • Болту́н — нахо́дка для шпио́на.
    Translation: A gossip is like treasure to a spy.

    Chapter 18
    • Ме́ньше зна́ешь — кре́пче спишь.
    the less you know the better/ the sounder you sleep.

    Chapter 19
    • Да́льше с глаз - бли́же к се́рдцу.
    Further from the eyes yet closer to the heart. (which still sounds like crap, but still)


    Undecided 1
    • Пришла́ беда́, отворя́й ворота́.
    trouble seldom comes alone. trouble comes in threes (also it never rains, it pours )
    Не откладывай на завтра того, с кем можешь переспать сегодня
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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    and that doesn't make me laugh, you know...
    I actually do not see any use in a tranliteration - it even does not convey the pronunciation anyway.
    Okay you are making a very good point here. Should I just be using traditional Cyrillic in my book? I had planned on the transliteration to make it easier for my daughter to sound out the words and to have an guide at the end of the book with all the words and their definitions. But, you make a valid point... You have given me something to think about. I had not considered that point of view and you seem to have VERY strong feelings about this.

    Anyone else want to give their two cents??? How do you feel as Russians seeing transliterations vs. Cyrillic in an English book? Please keep in mind the target audience is young adult age range 11-18. I would like to know your feelings.

    I only speak two languages, English and bad English.
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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    Quote Originally Posted by rockzmom
    Anyone else want to give their two cents??? How do you feel as Russians seeing transliterations vs. Cyrillic in an English book? Please keep in mind the target audience is young adult age range 11-18. I would like to know your feelings.
    Don’t strain yourself too hard. Either way no one of your target audience would give a damn about what those bloody Russians uttered in their freaky tongue. I wondered sometimes when I saw Russians in American movies why on earth the producers made complete dorks out of them. Couldn’t they have asked any nearby Russian to help them portray Russians more adequately? But after a while I stopped wondering because it dawned on me that nobody cared. So do your story the easier for you way.

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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    I agree that transliteration does not reflect exact pronunciation, but it is far better for an English reader than seeing the Cyrillic, which will look like total gobbledygook.

    I didn't read all your proverbs, but one is "Absence makes the heart grow fonder." The opposite, I guess, of "Out of sight, out of mind." One concept, two opposite sayings. =:^0

    Just sign me لحمي

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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    I agree that transliteration does not reflect exact pronunciation, but it is far better for an English reader than seeing the Cyrillic, which will look like total gobbledygook. ...
    Have you ever seen transliteration in books (not study books)?
    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Columbo
    Chapter 18
    • Ме́ньше зна́ешь — кре́пче спишь.
    the less you know the better/ the sounder you sleep.
    Ignorance is bliss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Columbo
    Chapter 19
    • Да́льше с глаз - бли́же к се́рдцу.
    Further from the eyes yet closer to the heart.
    Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    It isn't possible to "check" the correctness of the transliteration because there are no any rules for transliterating from Russian into Latin letters.
    Actually there are several systems for transliterating Russian into Latin characters. It makes sense to transliterate when you are writing a few Russian words in a document or book whose target audience doesn''t read Russian. And for library systems that don''t have Russian characters, transliteration is used for representing the titles of Russian books in the catalogs.

    But of course for studying the living Russian language transliteration is not particularly helpful.

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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    i think you should just leave it in Russian. readers wont be that bothered and maybe it will look exotic to them
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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    I didn't read all your proverbs, but one is "Absence makes the heart grow fonder." The opposite, I guess, of "Out of sight, out of mind." One concept, two opposite sayings.
    You say the consept of those two is the same but stiil one is opposite to the other

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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    alexB - I was thinking of people being separated by space.

    We use transliteration all the time - Tula, Saratov, Arkhangelsk. Any Russian name in print is transliterated instead of sticking in Cyrillic letters, which nobody would understand - Arkady Renko, Gorky Park, for example.

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    Re: Proverbs: Verification of Translations

    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    alexB - I was thinking of people being separated by space.

    We use transliteration all the time - Tula, Saratov, Arkhangelsk. Any Russian name in print is transliterated instead of sticking in Cyrillic letters, which nobody would understand - Arkady Renko, Gorky Park, for example.
    That was a great burden on my shoulders
    BTW in your list of transliterated cities Tula is placed first and I happen to live not far from there.

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