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Thread: Russian thema in western movies. Dumb and dumber?

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    Russian thema in western movies. Dumb and dumber?

    Американский сериал Airwolf. Почему все-таки они такие тупые и невежественные? Неужели все американские сценаристы читают только комиксы?

    http://www.from-ua.com/dark/42cd301601bc7

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    He-he, I've read it recently. In the photo with "raketen" there is a button with letter Й on it -- it's very funny too
    My English isn't so good, зато с русским все в порядке ))
    I'll be very thankful, if you correct my mistakes.

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    It became dumb long ago. Though some movies are ok. It depends on the director, I think. Lots of progress has been made by now - there are fewer and fewer people believing that Russia is infested with bears
    "A classic is something that everybody wants to have read and nobody wants to read"
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    I don't see any progress. Every western movie with Russian thema is always very stupid, I don't know any exception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomaks
    I don't see any progress. Every western movie with Russian thema is always very stupid, I don't know any exception.
    1. You are anti-western in general.
    2. Stereotypes always have a basis.
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    1. You are anti-western in general.
    If you have no arguments to demolish my thinks that will be good argument.

    2. Stereotypes always have a basis.
    Deception also always have a basis. Russophobie or stupidity for instance. What do you prefer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    2. Stereotypes always have a basis.
    Yes, I agree with TATY.

    But, there are films moving away from stereotypes. Anyone remember "Deerhunter"? That was centered on Russian-Americans.
    Not perfect, but it did NOT portray Russians as dumb. It portrayed strong ideas of friendship and loyalty.

    Another possibility..."Rounders"...I did not like Malkovich's 'Teddy' character, but he was not stupid or dumb. Very intelligent and clever.

    And "Burnt by the Sun", which was popular in America. Not an American movie, but BIG in the U.S. with educated Americans.

    The "Bourne" movies...

    "Prisoner of the Mountains" with Sergei and Oleg.

    And my hero...Tarkovsky...his films are dear to Americans, they are treasures to us...nothing more need be said.

    Do I need to continue? Or do you understand that many Americans DO see movies that show Russian strength, intelligence, and the Noble?

    Stop making assumptions how "Americans" think...especially when many of them are Russian.

    Hollywood is not America. It never will be. Unfortunately, Fantomaks, it may be the only window you see.

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    Anyone remember "Deerhunter"? That was centered on Russian-Americans.
    They were not Russians. Typical Americans without any Russian habits. Don't call them Russians.

    And "Burnt by the Sun", which was popular in America. Not an American movie, but BIG in the U.S. with educated Americans.
    This is our indelible disgrace. The movie is so bad that you don't even understand. Mikhalkov have shooted this film to get "Oscar" and acknowledgement of Western world. If you want to show his really good movies see his former films: "Раба любви", "Свой среди чужих, чужой среди своих", "Неоконченная пьеса для механического пианино". They are perfect.

    Do I need to continue? Or do you understand that many Americans DO see movies that show Russian strength, intelligence, and the Noble?
    I don't care about Russian in Hollywood films. I prefer that Russian in Americans movies will be ugly, stupid and evel. Really! Why? Coz they anyway can't show Russian as real people, only as dummy. So it will be better to see bad Russian with bad scenario then strength, intelligence, and the Noble Russian with bad scenario. Not so offensive.

    Hollywood is not America. It never will be. Unfortunately, Fantomaks, it may be the only window you see.
    Hollywood is sight of America. Many Americans have no informations about the world except movies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomaks
    Anyone remember "Deerhunter"? That was centered on Russian-Americans.
    They were not Russians. Typical Americans without any Russian habits. Don't call them Russians.

    [quote:754lp5hf]And "Burnt by the Sun", which was popular in America. Not an American movie, but BIG in the U.S. with educated Americans.
    This is our indelible disgrace. The movie is so bad that you don't even understand. Mikhalkov have shooted this film to get "Oscar" and acknowledgement of Western world. If you want to show his really good movies see his former films: "Раба любви", "Свой среди чужих, чужой среди своих", "Неоконченная пьеса для механического пианино". They are perfect.

    Do I need to continue? Or do you understand that many Americans DO see movies that show Russian strength, intelligence, and the Noble?
    I don't care about Russian in Hollywood films. I prefer that Russian in Americans movies will be ugly, stupid and evel. Really! Why? Coz they anyway can't show Russian as real people, only as dummy. So it will be better to see bad Russian with bad scenario then strength, intelligence, and the Noble Russian with bad scenario. Not so offensive.

    Hollywood is not America. It never will be. Unfortunately, Fantomaks, it may be the only window you see.
    Hollywood is sight of America. Many Americans have no informations about the world except movies.[/quote:754lp5hf]

    Doesn't the fact that it bothers you so much, show an underlying insecurity?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomaks
    Anyone remember "Deerhunter"? That was centered on Russian-Americans.

    They were not Russians. Typical Americans without any Russian habits. Don't call them Russians.
    Ah...tak...deep friendship and true loyalty to your friend are not Russian habits??? My close friends living in Russia would not agree with you.

    [quote:17fwfrmd]And "Burnt by the Sun", which was popular in America. Not an American movie, but BIG in the U.S. with educated Americans.

    This is our indelible disgrace. The movie is so bad that you don't even understand. Mikhalkov have shooted this film to get "Oscar" and acknowledgement of Western world. If you want to show his really good movies see his former films: "Раба любви", "Свой среди чужих, чужой среди своих", "Неоконченная пьеса для механического пианино". They are perfect.
    I did. Please do not assume me stupid. I have seen all his films. And I don't think you understand Mikhalkov.

    Do I need to continue? Or do you understand that many Americans DO see movies that show Russian strength, intelligence, and the Noble?

    I don't care about Russian in Hollywood films. I prefer that Russian in Americans movies will be ugly, stupid and evel. Really! Why? Coz they anyway can't show Russian as real people, only as dummy. So it will be better to see bad Russian with bad scenario then strength, intelligence, and the Noble Russian with bad scenario. Not so offensive.

    Hollywood is not America. It never will be. Unfortunately, Fantomaks, it may be the only window you see.

    Hollywood is sight of America. Many Americans have no informations about the world except movies.
    [/quote:17fwfrmd]

    I think your thoughts are clear now. You refuse to consider new friends...and everyone you don't know, is your enemy. And you consider "America" your enemy.
    Sad. And you refuse to change your mind.

    I may be the nicest, kindest person on this earth...someone who could be your strongest friend...but, you will continue to believe I am worthless and an idiot, because I am called 'American'.

    No, you don't understand Americans. Not at all.
    And you do not understand the strength or the beauty of the Russian soul.

    Come then, Fantomoks...break it down...as I, the "American" work to strengthen what I cherish and love, the Russian spirit and soul...and you work to weaken it.

    P.S. You paid no respect to Tarkovsky.

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    Критика по адресс Американских СМИ вполне оправдана

    Властелин, я не руский. Живу в США уже лет 17. За это время, не увидел ни едного положителного фильма про Руских. В СМИ тоже самое - нет ни одного положителного слова. СМИ в США являються оружием масовой манипулацией Американского населения. И манипулируют они против Роских - непрерывно.

    Я давно перестал смотрет Голивуд и масс медиа. Я не очень понимаю почему Руские смотрять эту отраву. Они попросту должны отвратиться от Голивуда. И те которые уже отвратились, должены непрерывно предостерегать осталных. А вы что Властелин, струсили от критики ли, что ли?

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    there are quite few very good american movies
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    It's about US media, not about Americans

    Dobry, I don't think anyone "refused to consider new friends". The conversation is strictly about the extremely negative light in which the American media represents everything Russian. Precisely because Russians appreciate new friends, they are concerned with the situation. Being continuously shown as dummies and mafia combined, does not win Russians any friends! Do you understand your logical error?

    To give you another example - you assumed that Fantomaks considered you "stupid", "worthless and an idiot", etc, without he ever claiming anything like that. Your assumptions about what Russians might think about you are very telling. To a large extent, they come from your media environment.

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    stef49,

    Understood. But my comments (me worthless, idiot) were rhetorical, not personal. And I was not speaking of all Russians, but to the stereotyped bias of fantomaks. I actually don't know what fantomaks thinks of me (but I strongly sense I would not be welcome in his home on New Year's! )

    I disagree...I do not see the American media always portraying "everything Russian" in an "extremely negative light." For example, I have seen the media strongly criticize Bush, and then praise Putin in world politics. It is the American media that caused me, and many Americans, to donate to the Nord-Ost's, and Beslan children's funds.

    And I do not understand why fantomaks did not like "Burnt by the Sun". Please explain why he believes it shows Russians in a bad way? In America, it educated many Americans as to the Stalin Purges. By the way, Oleg is one of my favorite actors.

    I'm almost afraid to mention the portrayal of Zaitsev, by Hollywood, as the hero of Stalingrad. Clearly not a Russian film, but Hollywood did show Zaitsev as a good man and a hero, true?

    And think...if the American media, and people, really believed that all Russians are dummies and/or mafia...do you really think our Astronauts would join the Russian Cosmonauts as partners in building the international space station??? The American media portray the Cosmonauts as good men, intelligent men and heroes. Americans think of the Cosmonauts as heroes. This is reality, and not a goofy TV show or movie.

    My point is that fantomaks is only seeing what he wants to see, thru a very small window, and he is refusing other windows where Russians are portrayed in a good way, thought of in a good way, by American media. Here he is stereotyping American beliefs, all of America, based on an old TV series from 20 years ago!

    I sense that he wants to believe the bad, and close his eyes to the good...much has changed in 20 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    But, there are films moving away from stereotypes. Anyone remember "Deerhunter"? That was centered on Russian-Americans.
    Not perfect, but it did NOT portray Russians as dumb. It portrayed strong ideas of friendship and loyalty.
    Never heard of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    Another possibility..."Rounders"...I did not like Malkovich's 'Teddy' character, but he was not stupid or dumb. Very intelligent and clever.
    And of this one, too...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    And "Burnt by the Sun", which was popular in America. Not an American movie, but BIG in the U.S. with educated Americans.
    Absolutely right, *not* an american movie. (And a contradictory one as well... but it's a theme for a different discussion.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    The "Bourne" movies...
    I never seen any of these... but I'm afraid they are exactly as anti-russian, as all spy thrillers are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    "Prisoner of the Mountains" with Sergei and Oleg.
    "Кавказский пленник?" Not an american movie, too...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    And my hero...Tarkovsky...his films are dear to Americans, they are treasures to us...nothing more need be said.
    Well, not an american movies, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    Do I need to continue? Or do you understand that many Americans DO see movies that show Russian strength, intelligence, and the Noble?
    Probably they do. But the original topic of discussion was more like "Do americans MAKE movies that show Russian strength, intelligence, and the Noble?"
    The answer seems to be negative, I'm afraid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    ...do you really think our Astronauts would join the Russian Cosmonauts as partners in building the international space station??? The American media portray the Cosmonauts as good men, intelligent men and heroes. Americans think of the Cosmonauts as heroes. This is reality, and not a goofy TV show or movie.
    Especially "Аrmagedon" (Армагедон) with drunken Russian Cosmonaut in the cap with ear-flaps (где пьяный русский космонавт в шапке-ушанке закалачивает гвозди). Or something like this.
    Or "2010" with Kramarov in the role of the Soviet Cosmonaut.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    I'm almost afraid to mention the portrayal of Zaitsev, by Hollywood, as the hero of Stalingrad. Clearly not a Russian film, but Hollywood did show Zaitsev as a good man and a hero, true?
    I consider the film as stupid. I prefer to switch off any Hollywood film if there are Soviet or Russian personages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    I'm almost afraid to mention the portrayal of Zaitsev, by Hollywood, as the hero of Stalingrad. Clearly not a Russian film, but Hollywood did show Zaitsev as a good man and a hero, true?
    This film is total lie, Russian veterans were protesting against it, even another good film K-19 The widowmaker where Harrison Ford is a real Russian hero wasn't met good here. Americans didnt understand it and almost nobody watched it as the hero wasn't american. For Holywood it s not profitable to make heros of any other nationalities, guys are making money, not films.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomaks
    I don't see any progress. Every western movie with Russian thema is always very stupid, I don't know any exception.
    Red Dawn?

    "It is the dawn of World War III. In mid-western America, a group of teenagers bands together to defend their town, and their country, from invading Soviet forces" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087985/




    They were trying to scare us (propaganda). It only informed us that there were more countries out there than just us. ooops....
    It is Winter and Very Cold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    I'm almost afraid to mention the portrayal of Zaitsev, by Hollywood, as the hero of Stalingrad. Clearly not a Russian film, but Hollywood did show Zaitsev as a good man and a hero, true?

    I consider the film as stupid. I prefer to switch off any Hollywood film if there are Soviet or Russian personages.
    This is why I was afraid to mention it. It is not a good film, and it is not historically accurate. But this is not the point...

    The assertion was raised that Russians are "always portrayed as dummies or mafia." Zaitsev was portrayed as a good man and a hero. Fine, let us assume his character is fictional. Hollywood has portrayed a Russian as a strong, good man, and a hero. Are all Russian films 100% historically accurate? No, of course not, most movies are fiction. "Kukushka" was fiction. "Prisoner of the Mountains" was fiction. "War" was fiction. Same as Hollywood movies.

    I forgot about "2010". But the Cosmonauts were not portrayed as "dummies". But in reality, the real Cosmonauts are considered as heroes in the U.S. The media portray them as real-life heroes.

    NASA media...Expedition Commander Sergei Krikalev is a veteran of five previous spaceflights, including two missions to the Russian space station Mir and two Shuttle flights. He was a member of the first Station crew, serving aboard a much smaller ISS from Nov. 2, 2000, to March 18, 2001. He has spent a year, 5 months and 10 days in space. This flight should see him become the world's most experienced space traveler.

    Born in Leningrad (now St. Petersburg), Russia, he graduated from what is now St. Petersburg Technical University in 1981 and then joined NPO Energia, the Russian organization responsible for human spaceflight. He was selected as a cosmonaut in 1985.


    Commander Krikalev is a true hero. And both the U.S. government and media are portraying him as a hero, and the world's most experienced cosmo/astro-naut...a Russian hero, and a hero for Americans also.

    I know and understand what some of you are saying, and I agree there have been some bad portrayals. But not "all" of them. Portrayals have been changing over the years. Let time work it's miracles, and you will see a good change in the media portrayals.

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    Well, I do believe that "Enemy at the Gate" and "K-19 The Widowmaker" were excellent movies, I am not sure about the first one, but the second was approved by Russian veterans, more then that they participated in the creation of the movie, although I liked "Enemy at the Gate" more.

    I watched both movies in Cinema theaters, and in both cases I could see that people who were watching them with me were shocked. The movie already ended, the lights were on, but everybody was sitting in silence.

    Yes, the movies are not perfect, but can you name any Russian movie about Russian war which is perfect? "But that is our movie".

    Long time ago, back in Uzbekistan I watched video "Их поменяли местами", I did not speak English then, so I do not remember the original name, but it was an american movie about two twins who played game (being adutl women, one married, the other was not), one lived in Venece, the other was married not a very rich american scientist. Not a great movie, but the was a Russian scientist in there, who was visiting the american one. He was just a normal guy, looked very russian to me, in his behaviour etc.

    Sex and the City, I do not watch that show, but my ex-wife insisted I watched one part, about on of female characters over there dating Russian actor or artist, I do not remember. He was quite handsome, nice guy, very charming with great manners etc.

    Should I mention Russian movies were americans are total a$$holes? Like "Случай в квадрате 36/80"?
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