Thread: the reality of Russia?

Originally Posted by laxxy

Originally Posted by Alware

Originally Posted by Amaranta

I can't accept that someone could condemn their country so easily, especially when they left it

That's exactly the reason. People who left Russia for good in order to live ordinary life working at McDonalds or smthing of that kind won't say anything good about their former homeland.

That's the thing, they do not have much good to say. e.g. a typical IT professional's income in Russia will be several times lower than that in the US/Europe, but it is partially compensated by lower cost of living, taxes, etc. And for some people life in Russia would be actually better.

But for a family of, say, a McDonald's worker and a taxi driver life in the US/Europe will be usually *much* better than in Russia.
So impressions you'll get from these people will be quite different, and rightfully so. And people from the first group do not realize it.

It's the same with other countries too -- an Indian IT engineer may prefer a $30K job in India to a $80K job in the US because he can get a meal at a restaurant for $1 there, but what about the person cooking that meal?

That could be true for 5-7 years ago, but not now

Originally Posted by Alware

Originally Posted by laxxy

Originally Posted by Alware

Originally Posted by Amaranta

I can't accept that someone could condemn their country so easily, especially when they left it

That's exactly the reason. People who left Russia for good in order to live ordinary life working at McDonalds or smthing of that kind won't say anything good about their former homeland.

That's the thing, they do not have much good to say. e.g. a typical IT professional's income in Russia will be several times lower than that in the US/Europe, but it is partially compensated by lower cost of living, taxes, etc. And for some people life in Russia would be actually better.

But for a family of, say, a McDonald's worker and a taxi driver life in the US/Europe will be usually *much* better than in Russia.
So impressions you'll get from these people will be quite different, and rightfully so. And people from the first group do not realize it.

It's the same with other countries too -- an Indian IT engineer may prefer a $30K job in India to a $80K job in the US because he can get a meal at a restaurant for $1 there, but what about the person cooking that meal?

That could be true for 5-7 years ago, but not now

what exactly is not true?

Originally Posted by laxxy

what exactly is not true?

But for a family of, say, a McDonald's worker and a taxi driver life in the US/Europe will be usually *much* better than in Russia.

I live in Russia and I used to live in the US. And you know what?

Let's not talk about the US. Their awkwardnesses (oh god, what a word), are well-known. Let's talk about Europe/Oceania (AU NZ).

Originally Posted by Alware

Originally Posted by laxxy

what exactly is not true?

But for a family of, say, a McDonald's worker and a taxi driver life in the US/Europe will be usually *much* better than in Russia.

er? It is true. To start, think about the house they'd live in and the cars they'd drive.
The quality of life of such a family in the US is quite comparable to that of a family of a reasonably successful small businessman in Russia.
Replacing one of them with e.g. a school teacher (~$40-45K will make this comparison even more one-sided

A good deal more in many places -- e.g. NJ was $53281 back in 2000-2001.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

I live in Russia and I used to live in the US. And you know what?

Let's not talk about the US. Their awkwardnesses (oh god, what a word), are well-known. Let's talk about Europe/Oceania (AU NZ).

what do you mean by awkwardness?

But for a family of, say, a McDonald's worker and a taxi driver life in the US/Europe will be usually *much* better than in Russia.

And what happens if those people have children and want them to go to a good university ?

By the way, I'm late, but:

Originally Posted by Stars

Yeah, I know the country isn't exactly rich and all.... but I've seen pictures of the landscape, I've heard music, I've heard the language. It's all beautiful. I think Russian people are strong and awesome people. I love Russia like you do, and also believe in a better future for the country.

Amen to that.

what do you mean by awkwardness?

То, что у них всё не как у людей.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

what do you mean by awkwardness?

То, что у них всё не как у людей.

Наоборот -- у них (почти) все именно так, как и должно быть у людей
США -- в большинстве вещей самая рационально организованная страна мира. Именно поэтому все туда и едут

Originally Posted by laxxy

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

what do you mean by awkwardness?

То, что у них всё не как у людей.

Наоборот -- у них (почти) все именно так, как и должно быть у людей
США -- в большинстве вещей самая рационально организованная страна мира. Именно поэтому все туда и едут

На самом деле в США всё очень неплохо. Вот только возможности заработать мало. А на $50K в год не сильно шиканёшь. (И не дай бог тебе заболеть)

Originally Posted by Amaranta

But for a family of, say, a McDonald's worker and a taxi driver life in the US/Europe will be usually *much* better than in Russia.

And what happens if those people have children and want them to go to a good university ?

If the kids are smart enough, they'll be able to get fellowships, etc. at any school -- I know a family with a child on full fellowship at UC Berkeley, and another whose daughter graduated from Yale the same way (none of them were even in-state). This is comparable to getting to e.g. Moscow State.

If the kids are just OK, they'll go to their state university and pay in-state tuition (e.g. U. of IL, a very good school in fact, charges ~$5000/semester). They can always take a loan too if needed, there are various government and other assistance programs with these.

And of course if you decide to attend graduate school and become a scientist they'll pay you for that

Originally Posted by Alware

Originally Posted by laxxy

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

what do you mean by awkwardness?

То, что у них всё не как у людей.

Наоборот -- у них (почти) все именно так, как и должно быть у людей
США -- в большинстве вещей самая рационально организованная страна мира. Именно поэтому все туда и едут

На самом деле в США всё очень неплохо. Вот только возможности заработать мало. А на $50K в год не сильно шиканёшь. (И не дай бог тебе заболеть)

Er? Where a *schoolteacher* earns more? Especially after you take taxes into account? btw govt. employees have quite a decent insurance.
But yes, medical, and perhaps legal, systems are the two primary problems America has. Well, nothing is perfect. Perhaps with time America learns a bit more from the rest of the world, and the rest of the world learns from America, and everyone will live happily ever after

About возможности заработать -- well, it's better than most other places. It is surely better than in Russia or Europe (not for everyone, but for most ppl it is better).

Another place which is imo comparable in a sense is China. It is in many ways quite as rational, and more so. But very, very different.

Наоборот -- у них (почти) все именно так, как и должно быть у людей

Спорить не буду, но
Особенно меня пугает гигантская преступность и то, что любой негр-бандит из подворотни ходит чуть ли не с гранатометом совершенно легально.

P.S. Да и "всё как у людей" скорее у Норвегии, Швеции, Австралии, судя по Top-100 стран по уровню жизни...

P.P.S. да про что мы вообще говорим? Тема не про "Хорошо в США или плохо", тема про "Хорошо в России или плохо".

Так вот, чтобы не оффтоп -- в России хорошо! Я люблю Россию.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

в России хорошо! Я люблю Россию.

+1

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

Наоборот -- у них (почти) все именно так, как и должно быть у людей

Спорить не буду, но
Особенно меня пугает гигантская преступность и то, что любой негр-бандит из подворотни ходит чуть ли не с гранатометом совершенно легально.

P.S. Да и "всё как у людей" скорее у Норвегии, Швеции, Австралии, судя по Top-100 стран по уровню жизни...

P.P.S. да про что мы вообще говорим? Тема не про "Хорошо в США или плохо", тема про "Хорошо в России или плохо".

Так вот, чтобы не оффтоп -- в России хорошо! Я люблю Россию.

Я тоже люблю Россию, но живя в Норвегии. В Россию люблю ездить в гости. Но по вечерам в России ходить боюсь, да и вообще всё время пребывания там боюсь чего-то...даже в магазине может достаться ни за что ни про что...А когда мы с классом ездили на месяц в Питер, то нас как иностранных студентов предупреждали. чтобы ни в коем случае не связывались с милицией - этот страх немного омрачает все прелести пребывания в России.
Зато много простых хороших людей и люблю русские фильмы, книги вообще есть что-то в России, чего нет в Норвегии

Originally Posted by kalinka

Я тоже люблю Россию, но живя в Норвегии.

В этом и вопрос. Люби кого хочешь - живи где нравится

Originally Posted by kalinka

даже в магазине может достаться ни за что ни про что...

Да ладно, там просто обхамят, и всё!

вообще есть что-то в России, чего нет в Норвегии

Там нет таких бескрайних просторов
Если ездили с одного конца страны в другой (который у тихого океана), меня поймёте

Наша Новгородская область, блин, как вся Норвегия величиной, а я ее изъездил на велосипеде (область, а не Норвегию, хотя Норвегию тоже хочу!)

Originally Posted by Stars

Yeah, I know the country isn't exactly rich and all.... but I've seen pictures of the landscape, I've heard music, I've heard the language. It's all beautiful. I think Russian people are strong and awesome people. I love Russia like you do, and also believe in a better future for the country.

You are a little naive my friend... Russia has many different faces and this is just one of them... It is full of paradoxes and extremes of all kinds. Here is one paradox for you: Russia is famous for giving the world some of the best classical composers and musicians, but they are not that much respected by average folk in Russia and you won't hear a lot of classical music on Russian radio. Instead you will hear a lot of bad pop music. Russian is a great language, but what you will hear on streets is mostly 1000 words half of which used to be forbidden for print in the days when our governement was still looking after our morale I've just touched the top of the iceberg, I don't really have time at the moment to go into the details, but I guess before going there and exploring it for yourself you at least have to find someone there who will introduce you into that life at least initially. Also, I would recommend watching some realistic movies and reading some books. How much of the language do you know? Can you watch non-dubbed movies?

Instead you will hear a lot of bad pop music.

Do we hear only Mozart and Bach aired in Ottawa?