Thread: Question about education and superconductivity

Originally Posted by it-ogo

And I feel like you have confused me with someone else in this forum.

Ahhhhhhh, it-ogo. I was trying to be humorous and obviously I failed. I was not picking on you at all.

Seriously, you all are taking circles around me here with this science stuff, so I am scum to Waterlaz. To me, if you were to say the word "current" I would think oceans and riptides. But I can talk circles around all of you about RSAs, NQs, ISOs, SARs, AMT, Rabbi Trusts, Phantom Stocks, Golden Handcuffs....

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Ahhhhhhh, it-ogo. I was trying to be humorous and obviously I failed. I was not picking on you at all.

Seriously, you all are taking circles around me here with this science stuff, so I am scum to Waterlaz. To me, if you were to say the word "current" I would think oceans and riptides.

No, but really, what is about my definition?

"Everybody knows what is electric current (if you don't know, put two fingers into the socket and have an experience). Electric resistance is a kind of friction that electric current suffers, it slows down the current and makes some heating."

Is it enough good for a simple financier?

They are according to my definition

my definition implies that you can't make any assumptions of what facts or terms they do or do not know.

That is exactly my point.
So every audience is a general audience according to your definition(assuming the audience is always "able to demonstrate intelligent behavior i.e ...". And ofcourse the audience is always finite).
And now returning to my previous question:

Should we consider people who can't read to be a part of this "general audience"?

And the answer is yes. And thus making it impossible to write an article understandable to a general audience. (we can't assume the audience to speak English or any other particular language for that matter.)

Originally Posted by rockzmom

But I can talk circles around all of you about RSAs, NQs, ISOs, SARs, AMT, Rabbi Trusts, Phantom Stocks, Golden Handcuffs....

That's true. You see, I think the reason us scientific guys are so arrogant, is mainly because the science was taught in schools. Someone got it, others didn't. There were no financial classes in the school I studied (probably there are other schools as well), so for some reason we feel not obliged to know those (albeit very important) things. That's why I think we consider basics of electrodynamics as a required common knowledge and the financial terms as a specialized knowledge. That, of course, is snobbish and not very wise.

Originally Posted by Waterlaz

So every audience is a general audience according to your definition(assuming the audience is always "able to demonstrate intelligent behavior i.e ...".

Yes, according to my definition, the general audience is a super-set of the educated audience.

Originally Posted by Waterlaz

And now returning to my previous question:

Should we consider people who can't read to be a part of this "general audience"?

And the answer is yes. And thus making it impossible to write an article understandable to a general audience. (we can't assume the audience to speak English or any other particular language for that matter.)

You're right. However, that (though correct) implication is practically insignificant. What's more significant is that the less specialized terms you use in your article the broader the audience you could influence.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

That's true. You see, I think the reason us scientific guys are so arrogant...

In my experience people who really work in science are not arrogant at all. (At least in their professional area.) That is because the deeper you are in science the less people understand you and it is clearly a problem of you, not of someone else. Normally you are not understood even by your close colleagues. The ability to explain one's ideas well is the most important professional property of any scientist.

Arrogance usually a feature of charlatans or "generally educated" guys.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Originally Posted by Crocodile

That's true. You see, I think the reason us scientific guys are so arrogant...

In my experience people who really work in science are not arrogant at all. (At least in their professional area.) That is because the deeper you are in science the less people understand you and it is clearly a problem of you, not of someone else. Normally you are not understood even by your close colleagues. The ability to explain one's ideas well is the most important professional property of any scientist.

Arrogance usually a feature of charlatans or "generally educated" guys.

Yes, that makes sense. So you help me out here. How would you name someone who'd refer as "scum" to someone else who wouldn't know what is electrical current?

Originally Posted by it-ogo

No, but really, what is about my definition?

"Everybody knows what is electric current (if you don't know, put two fingers into the socket and have an experience). Electric resistance is a kind of friction that electric current suffers, it slows down the current and makes some heating."

Is it enough good for a simple financier?

After you asked a simple financier to experience the electric current, they'd stop taking advice from you and you lost them as your audience as well.

Seriously, what made you to define the electric current through the pain?

PS. By the way, many people (mistakenly) would say they didn't experience the electric current when they put their two fingers in the socket, but rather 110 (or 220) Volt (which is not the current!!) So, your definition is bad, bad, bad.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Yes, that makes sense. So you help me out here. How would you name someone who'd refer as "scum" to someone else who wouldn't know what is electrical current?

Technoworshipper?

That is because the deeper you are in science the less people understand you

This is an obviously false statement.

Normally you are not understood even by your close colleagues.

This one is even worse. Normally people working together (especialy scientists working in the same field) understand eachother better then brothers.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Yes, that makes sense. So you help me out here. How would you name someone who'd refer as "scum" to someone else who wouldn't know what is electrical current?

Technoworshipper?

OMG! Well thank you

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Seriously, what made you to define the electric current through the pain?

It's a best way to memorize...

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Seriously, what made you to define the electric current through the pain?

It's a best way to memorize...

Speaking from the personal experience?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Speaking from the personal experience?

No, I am just a theoretician, not an experimentalist.

Originally Posted by Waterlaz

This is an obviously false statement.
This one is even worse. Normally people working together (especialy scientists working in the same field) understand eachother better then brothers.

This time it is just my personal experience.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Ahhhhhhh, it-ogo. I was trying to be humorous and obviously I failed. I was not picking on you at all.

Seriously, you all are taking circles around me here with this science stuff, so I am scum to Waterlaz. To me, if you were to say the word "current" I would think oceans and riptides.

No, but really, what is about my definition?

"Everybody knows what is electric current (if you don't know, put two fingers into the socket and have an experience). Electric resistance is a kind of friction that electric current suffers, it slows down the current and makes some heating."

Is it enough good for a simple financier?

I had to get caught up with all the little comments here before I could answer.

So, to answer your first question... Yes, PAIN is a good way to learn. As a kid, I took a knife and put it in the toaster to get the bread out ....while it was still on.... I think I learned then about electrical currents.

But seriously, you gave a visual description which is good and if you used that in a lecture and of course jokingly said, "Now don't try this at home," many people would be able to relate to it and you would have them on your side thinking, "Okay, this guy I might actually be able to learn from." Many people need visuals when trying to understand a concept that is abstract to them so I think they are the best kind to use. You used humor as well, which I also approve of.

So, now am I "scum" or a "technoworshipper"? I got lost on that one.

Truth be told... I am not a "simple financier"... my job in life was mainly to do what you are trying to. Take difficult technical terms and concepts and make them easy to understand for a lay person. I ended up be VERY good at explaining a variety of difficult things, such as finance and legal matters, to the "every day common folk" and at the same time, once I understood the concepts, I was able to speak on level with the "experts." So basically, I would sit down with you, pick your brain and have you teach me what it is you wanted a group of people to know. And then once I understood it, I would put it into everyday language and pretty pictures and analogies that "normal" people could actually understand and go "Ah, I get it now!" Then either teach you how to explain it to them or I would teach it for you.

You see, as you and Croc were discussing, people who are highly technical or specialized (lawyers I have found can be really a bear to speak in normal words) usually have trouble explaining and speaking to people about what it is they do or how something works. They start at too high of a level and get frustrated when a person cannot follow along. They seem to think that EVERYONE should know what they know and in realilty very few people were either taught these things or remember them.

Personally, I never took chemistry in school. NEVER. Not in grade school or in college. So I never learned the periodic table. Am I a worse off in life for not knowing them? Can you not hold a conversation with me because of it? But it-ogo, if you started to talk with me about anything related to chemistry, you would see a big glaze come over my eyes as I do not have this knowledge base and then you would think I am stupid and get frustrated because I cannot keep up with you. You have to "dumb it down" for me WITHOUT making me feel dumb. And that my friend, is a skill that has to be learned. It is an art all on its own. Because it is not just what you say to me, it is how you say it, your facial expressions, your tone of voice, your body language. One wrong gesture and I know that you think I am lower than dirt.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Speaking from the personal experience?

No, I am just a theoretician, not an experimentalist.

I think defining the resistance through the electric current that way, especially to the "mechanically inferior female" is MERZOST (Marginally Elaborated Resistance with Zero Operator Safety Tolerance)!!

Originally Posted by Crocodile

"mechanically inferior female"

Croc... you know where that term came from?? I actually went to college for film and photography and the HEAD of the Film Department at the college I attended walked in the first day of his class and greeted the class by stating how he did not agree with the school's policy of allowing women in the program "...because all of you are mecanically inferior females!"

This caused about half of the few women that were there to get up an leave (cursing like drunking saliors as they did), of course acomplishing his goal.

So now, whenever I don't understand anything mechanical or technical, I use that line.

BTW, just to irritate him, I aced his class!

Originally Posted by rockzmom

So now, whenever I don't understand anything mechanical or technical, I use that line.

A nice one.

So now just out of curiosity, Waterlaz, it-ogo and Croc… are you three scientist folks for your day jobs, hobby, students or what? And if so, what is your specialty? Or will you have to kill me if you tell me?