Thread: NonRussian films (work in progress)

Olya,

While I pondered how to repond to your posts, I realized that you actually made an excellent supportive argument for my original post and proved my reasons why people should see this film.

Before I get into the main text here, I did want to answer one quick question that you have asked about the film:

Where on [s:27whvxag]E[/s:27whvxag]earth did the character of Makovetsky get that stupid photo of the female neighbour where the [s:27whvxag]killed's[/s:27whvxag] murdered husband's wife was cut [s:27whvxag]off[/s:27whvxag] out?

At the beginning of the film, as the jurors are getting ready to leave the courtroom and go to the school, the neighbor asks the bailiff if she can have her photos back that she gave to the judge and he tells her no. So the neighbor herself gave them over as evidence.

Now, onto my response…

Most of the items in the film that could be considered “flaws” by some, for me just weren’t germane enough points in the story to matter. It is just like the flashback scenes, to me, they were not relevant, they could have been 100% accurate or not, it did not matter to what I considered the main point of the movie.

Each person brings with them their own unique experiences and viewpoints into a situation, into this Forum and Thread. For you, it appears that the movie was not realistic, because you have not experienced or witnessed firsthand a number of things that happened in the film or simply could not believe them to be true and this took away from your film experience. You could not suspend belief and this is a major thing that needs to happen for a person to “enjoy” a film. While I on the other hand, eitehr didn't care or could believe them to true and even if I had a little difficulty with them, I decided that possibly, just possibly they could be true.

Let me try to illustrate by using just one comment you made in your post (I could cite examples for each one) :

Another falsity. Do you really believe that a wife can throw a [s:27whvxag]smoothing[/s:27whvxag] smoldering iron at her husband silently, without any word or scream just one second after he gave a slight clip on the back of the son's head?

Apparently, you have been very fortunate in your life and have never experienced or known anyone who has experienced Domestic Abuse. I on the other hand, have witnessed firsthand a wife throwing one of those old heavy telephones at her husband’s head without any warning. Literality ripping it out of the wall as she did it, only because she was angry with him. And just as in the movies, it happened so quickly, I was unable to utter any sound and therefore unable to warn the man that he was about to be struck upside the head and to duck.

So, for me Olya, this is not a “falsity.” This is not some made up fictional story line that could never happen and this is part of what I bring to the table versus what you or someone else would bring to the table. It is how we are different and how our backgrounds and views of the world would lead us to maybe find someone innocent versus guilty. To have compassion in a particular circumstance or not. It proves the entire point of the film.

We all have emotional, psychological and prejudicial baggage that we carry around with us. It clouds our judgment, for better or worse. This film helps explore those differences whether they be Russian, Chechenian, Jewish, American, doctor, undertaker, circus performer, scientist or something in between IF we open up our minds to the possibility that they exist.

At the beginning of the film, as the jurors are getting ready to leave the courtroom and go to the school, the neighbor asks the bailiff if she can have her photos back that she gave to the judge and he tells her no. So the neighbor herself gave them over as evidence.

Aha... I see. I didn't remember that, thank you. But I still think that she wouldn't have any reasons to give herself those photos to the court (and she could did it only herself as she's just a witness), and I do find it very strange.

As for that a wing of a house under construction can't be planned on a place of another habitable house, it's not a question of my experience or unexperience – it's just a LAW. You would never get a permission on building until another house is demolished.

As for that no one says a word about the guy's testimony – it's not a question of my experience either, it's just the simplest logic.

And, you know, I actually don't mean that a viewer can't "enjoy" this film. Of course he can. Because this film actually is a show. I don't mean anything humiliating here. I just mean it's a show, with a good picture, popular actors, some effects like throwing a knife, and so on. So yes, of course, one can enjoy it. Why not enjoy a show? But don't tell me there is truth about people in that film.

Originally Posted by Оля

But don't tell me there is truth about people in that film.

Please help me to understand. Please educate me.

Are you saying that you are in no way, shape or form prejudice? And that you have never witnessed or experience any prejudice in your entire life? No racial, religious, political or sexual bias? That this does not exist in Russia at all?

Is this the experience of others in Russia as well?

When I ask this, I am NOT being accusatory or sarcastic; I am genuinely wanting to know because I find it astonishing if this is the case.

Oh, no, rockzmom, you didn't understand me well. If you mean that the movie is about prejudice, that it tries to touch upon that problem, I completely agree with you. When I said there is no "truth" in the movie, I did not mean that there is no prejudice in life. I meant that too many details in the movie seemed completely false to me, and that the attempt to make a good movie about prejudice was not successful (in my opinion). The characters, the events, the logic, the circumstances - a lot of them seemed untruthful to me, and the movie itself didn't touch me.

Unfortunately I didn't watch the original movie, but while watching the Mikhalkov's one I had a feeling that the whole plot is dragged for ears. So I agree with Оля. But may be it's for people who like psychological (fiction ) drama with good actors.

Originally Posted by Basil77

plot is dragged for ears

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Originally Posted by Basil77

plot is dragged for ears

Я хотел сказать что сюжет за уши притянут, просто буквально на английский перевёл. Просто настолько всё надуманно, что лучше бы было переносить действие куда-нибудь в будущее на Марс, и на таком антураже делать римейк.

Originally Posted by Оля

If you mean that the movie is about prejudice, that it tries to touch upon that problem, I completely agree with you.

To steal a quote from another movie, "Yes. Yes, a thousand times, yes!" That was exactly what I was trying to express.

Originally Posted by Basil77

But may be it's for people who like psychological (fiction ) drama with good actors.

Basil77, Welcome to the Thread! And... nicely worded comment and smiley to boot!!!


Next movie review.... Day Watch & 17 Moments of Spring coming up soon....


Also, has anyone seen any of the movies from the Golden Globe Awards?

Slumdog Millionaire http://www.foxsearchlight.com/slumdogmillionaire/ (won Best Motion Picture - Drama)
Frost/Nixon http://www.frostnixonthemovie.com/
Revolutionary Road http://www.revolutionaryroadmovie.com/
The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button http://www.benjaminbutton.com/
The Reader http://thereader-movie.com/
Waltz With Bashir http://waltzwithbashir.com/ (won Best Foreign Language Film)

If so, even though they aren't "Russian" films, I would love to hear what you thought about them!!

Originally Posted by Basil77

Я хотел сказать что сюжет за уши притянут, просто буквально на английский перевёл.

Lingvo says it's "far-fetched" in English.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Просто настолько всё надуманно, что лучше бы было переносить действие куда-нибудь в будущее на Марс, и на таком антураже делать римейк.

I'll translate it for rockzmom since she asks us to write in English in this thread and since I want to second your opinion:
It's just so much farfetched that it would be better to move the action to the future and to Mars and to make a remake in that environment.
Actually that's exactly what I think, too.

Originally Posted by Оля

Originally Posted by Basil77

It's just so much farfetched that it would be better to move the action to the future and to Mars and to make a remake in that environment.

Actually that's exactly what I think, too.

Ouch! Et tu, Basil77?

You know, IF my book ever gets published and turned into a movie, I really hate to think which planet you will send my plot to. Or maybe it would be a black hole???

I am seeing a pattern here.... Russians against (correction WAY against), Non-Russians pro.

With that, here might be a really short and sweet (tounge in cheek) review of the movie "12"

If you are Russian, don't expect to enjoy this film. The plot is awful and filled with too many impossible situations that in no way could it ever happen. Russian film makers trying to make Hollywood style movie while also trying to make a political statment.

If you aren't Russian, expect to that you will be able to suspend belief and enjoy this film with good acting and an interesting psychological view of prejudice in Russian that can easily mirror the prejudice in our society as a whole.

Does that about sum it up???

im looking foward to the Russians' review of обитаемый остров

Originally Posted by Lt. Columbo

im looking foward to the Russians' review of обитаемый остров

You know, it has been a subject of some VERY heated debates. Basically, most people who have seen it are split in two camps.
People from camp one typically say: "This movie sucks because... <a very, very long list or reasons follows>"
People from camp two listen to all those reasons and reply: "So what? It is still good!"

Originally Posted by translationsnmru

You know, it has been a subject of some VERY heated debates. Basically, most people who have seen it are split in two camps.
People from camp one typically say: "This movie sucks because... <a very, very long list or reasons follows>"
People from camp two listen to all those reasons and reply: "So what? It is still good!"

The thing "To be continued... IN THREE MONTHS" is not good, I think.

i came very close to watching it yesterday but went for сказки на ночь instead (which, to my surprise, i actually quite enjoyed).
i think ill wait until i can download it and see if it's any worse than груз 200 which currently is the worst russian movie i have ever seen

Originally Posted by Lt. Columbo

груз 200 which currently is the worst russian movie i have ever seen

Еще есть "Морфий" того же режиссера. =)

x-rated

[video:v1705ava]http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=5tRf9SY9U-A[/video:v1705ava]

rockzmom
Since you've already started reading russian books I realy recommend "The Master and Margarita" by Mikhail Bulgakov.
This is a novell about the Devil visiting Moscow. Bulgakov was sure that it would never be published. And he had been writing it for 10 years just for fun.
But the shortend version of the novell was first published in 1966 (Bulgakov died in 1940)

Originally Posted by BappaBa

Originally Posted by Lt. Columbo

груз 200 which currently is the worst russian movie i have ever seen

Еще есть "Морфий" того же режиссера. =)

BappaBa,

After viewing that lovely graphic clip (thank goodness the girls were not here... you should have put a rating on that thing ) and having absolutely no clue as to what this movie is about, I seriously doubt that I will watch this artistic masterpiece!

Lt. Columbo, I'll let you watch this one for me FIRST, and let me know what you think!

Originally Posted by Waterlaz

rockzmom
Since you've already started reading Russian books I really recommend "The Master and Margarita" by Mikhail Bulgakov.
This is a novel[s:za9a5akr]l[/s:za9a5akr] about the Devil visiting Moscow. Bulgakov was sure that it would never be published. And he had been writing it for 10 years just for fun.
But the shortened version of the novel[s:za9a5akr]l[/s:za9a5akr] was first published in 1966 (Bulgakov died in 1940)

Waterlaz,

Thanks. 10 years you say and just for fun... So there is hope that I might one day finish my book and have it published? I hope it won't happen AFTER I die; but, then again... if my plot line is not believable enough...

I found a copy at my local library that was translated by Burgin/Tiernan O'Connor. Accroding to a review on Amazon, that is actually the best translation.
http://www.amazon.com/Master-Margari.../dp/0679760806

There is also a copy online available to download on Scribd with the translation by Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky, http://d.scribd.com/docs/1hvmrod47havddplanto.pdf


I did get my copy of Ilf & Petrov's, The Twelve Chairs that I found on eBay. The copy is from 1961 and was originally $1.25. It has a very interesting introduction written by Maurice Friedberg from Hunter College that speaks about Russo-American relations. Here is a "small" part of that introduction ...

"It has long been my considered opinion that strains in Russo-American relations are inevitable as long as the average American persists in picturing the Russian as a gloomy, moody, unpredictable individual, and the average Russian in seeing the American as childish, cheerful and, on the whole, rather primitive. …

...There are two ways to correct these misconceptions. One would be to import into Russia a considerable number of sober, serious-minded, Russian-speaking American tourists, in exchange for an identical number of cheerful, logical, English-speaking Russians who would visit America. The other, less costly form of cultural exchange would be for the Russians to read more of Hawthorne, Melville, Faulkner, and Tennessee Williams, and for us to become better acquainted with the less solemn- though not at all less profound- Russians. We would do well to read more of Gogol, Saltykov-Shchedrin, Chekhov (the short stories and the one-act plays) and – among Soviet authors – to read Mikhail Zoshchenko and Ilf and Petrov. Thus, in its modest way, the present volume – though outwardly not very “serious” – should contribute to our better understanding of Russia and the Russians and aid us in facing the perils of peaceful coexistence.”

Thanks. 10 years you say and just for fun... So there is hope that I might one day finish my book and have it published? I hope it won't happen AFTER I die; but, then again... if my plot line is not believable enough...

After one of Bulgakov's plays were banned he burned the first version of "The Master and Margarita".

Originally Posted by rockzmom

thank goodness the girls were not here... you should have put a rating on that thing

sorry, my fault.