Thread: Moscow Subway Hit By Suicide Bombings..

Originally Posted by Basil77

And one girl disapeared. She is the last year student in Moscow State University and work here as a trainee in the law department. She came to Moscow from one of the Siberian cities to study and lives in M.S.U. hostel. Her cellphone doesn't respond. I didn't find her in the victims list, but we still fear the worst.

Terrible news. She was among the victims. Yesterday her body was recognised by fellow students from the university.
http://www.1sn.ru/39030.html

Yes, it is sad, very, very sad.
Yesterday there was still hope and now there is not. I can’t even start to think what her parents must be going through right now.

Прими моё искреннее соболезнование, Basil. A terrorist act is always a tragedy but when it hits close to home, it's even worse.

I got chills when I first heard about the attack. When I lived in Moscow I stayed in the MSU dorm not far from Park Kultury. I took the subway there every day. I just can't believe people would do such things to each other...

Originally Posted by devochka

Прими моё искреннее соболезнование, Basil.

Да я то просто случайный коллега по работе, а вот родным и близким каково сейчас...

Originally Posted by Marlow

It really does not cost that much to operate a terrorist organization. I quote, "The UN estimates the 2002 bombing of a Bali nightclub cost about $50,000. By comparison, the 2004 Madrid train bombing is believed to have cost between $10,000 and $15,000. The 2005 attacks on London's mass transit system cost about $2,000." (http://www.cfr.org/publication/10356/) Btw, the Council on Foreign Relations is highly reputable.

It really depends on how you estimate the cost of the terrorist acts. If that's the cost of the explosives and the tickets, then those figures definitely make sense. But, it's like asking a poet - how much time did it take to write a specific poem? It's 20 minutes and his entire life. It's the entire infrastructure (which always needs to be checked, strengthened, validated, trained, the weapons need to be purchased (not officially), stored safely and securely, checked and maintained, and so much more). The terrorist orgs have to do everything illegally and so that the locals, the police, the intelligence with all its might will not notice and interfere for many years.

Just think in comparison. How much money do you think it might have cost to prepare the 9/11 attacks? According to the straightforward estimate, it's the cost of training of several pilots and the cost of their tickets. So, just perhaps a couple of thousand bucks. Correct?

Originally Posted by Basil77

Originally Posted by devochka

Прими моё искреннее соболезнование, Basil.

Да я то просто случайный коллега по работе, а вот родным и близким каково сейчас...

Да уж. Что тут скажешь.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Croc... I have found your theories VERY intriguing indeed. It had not even crossed my mind about the increase of oil price until you wrote about it yesterday.

To tell the truth, this theory is out there for long time now. It's not my invention. Consider the following recent passage (21 March 2010) written by a clear proponent of OPEC (I apologize for the long quote):

Originally Posted by http://www.daralhayat.com/print/121872

This week, OPEC celebrated its fiftieth anniversary, having been founded in Baghdad in 1960. In truth, there is a huge difference between its priorities and interests at present and what they were like in its early days.

Perhaps, one of the most important differences is the self-confidence and coordination present among the member states today, compared to the foreign intervention and difficulties that accompanied the establishment of an organization that brings together Third World Countries, and that has been dealing in the most important commercial and strategic commodity in the industrial age.

For instance, the organization spent the first decade of its life negotiating and quarrelling with the giant oil companies in order to correct the price levels from the low rates, at which they hovered at the time, (about one dollar per barrel). After painstaking negotiations, the price was increased a few cents per barrel, until the OPEC member states managed to have their voice heard and challenged the companies face to face, imposing a de facto policy on the latter. This confrontation took place in the sixties and in 1973, when the organization took historic decisions regarding production level and oil prices. (Croc: remember what happened in 1973? => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War)

Then, OPEC rose to prominence in 1973, when reliance on the major oil companies stopped (Croc: And they finally found out what works the best), and the largest possible revenue was incurred by retaking the decision of production and pricing from the grip of international companies.

[...]

This influx of oil from outside of OPEC led to the price deterioration of the eighties, while the major campaigns led by oil consuming countries to rationalize consumption led to shrinking annual growth rates of the demand for oil in those countries.

In fact, the eighties were branded with sharp disputes among the member states of the organization, especially upon distributing the production quotas for each country, as OPEC found it difficult to define the criteria that govern the allocation of production quotas. The latter found it even more difficult to verify the adherence of the member states to production agreements, and for instance, one of the meetings lasted two weeks in London, compared to two days at the present meetings of OPEC. Then of course, the Iraqi-Iranian war cast its shadow on the meetings, the global markets and the oil prices. (Croc: Remember who was behind Iraq in that war? The US & Co. fought back.)

Today, however, things are completely different from the way they were in the past, as evidenced by the convergence of the points of views among member states in what regards oil issues, despite the significant political differences among the member states. (Croc: Yes! It's not about the politics. Nobody even claims the responsibility of the terrorist acts! Or, sometimes, the multiple organizations claim the responsibility for the same event. Even the Al-Qaeda denied the responsibility for the 9/11 for a couple of weeks, but then when they saw the US is determined to crush them anyways, they took the responsibility to at least have something from it and become the heroes in their own world.)

The best proof of this is the stability of OPEC basket price at the range of 70-80 dollars over five months so far, despite the instability and the uncertainty that are still surrounding the global economy, as a result of the global financial crisis.

http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content ... 1760.shtml

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Originally Posted by http://www.daralhayat.com/print/121872

This week, OPEC celebrated its fiftieth anniversary, having been founded in Baghdad in 1960. In truth, there is a huge difference between its priorities and interests at present and what they were like in its early days.

Interesting article. Just skimmed it for now as have no time and have to go but I will read it carefully later. I'm still not into conspiracy theories... Can't believe everything you read. Though who knows? Anything is possible in this mad world. I read this one yesterday:

На пороге будущей войны: разведка США готовила теракт в Мумбаи
Кирилл Мямлин
В американском суде подтвердилось то, о чем было понятно с самого начала – разведка США причастна к подготовке теракта в ноябре 2008 года в Мумбаи, унесшего жизни 166 человек. Так был организован индийский 9/11 и совсем не случайно, что госсекретарь Кондолиза Райс прибыла практически на следующий день после завершения трагических событий «выражать свои соболезнования». Целеположением для США было выстраивание отношений с Индией, как противовеса Китаю, все более и более увеличивающего свое присутствие в Пакистане, Шри-Ланке и Мьянме. Подобное мероприятие проводилось в рамках стратегии «петли анаконды», сжимающейся не только вокруг России, но и Китая, и попытки разжать капкан, в который США угодили в исламском мире.

full text -- http://oko-planet.su/politik/politik...-gotovila.html

It might look convincing at a first glance but not so if you dig deeper. It's just too convoluted a logic for me (and a very serious accusation too). The same site has an article on how it's the White House itself that planned 9/11. I heard this theory and it also seems preposterous. Maybe I'm naive as hell -- I understand that at all times foreign politics was a dirty business and many governments, including the USSR, supported separatists in various countries for their own ends. But still... Don't want to believe it.

And regarding financing -- it's not only oil companies that have money. There's money to be had from drug-dealing and LOTS of it and I suppose it all goes right to Afghanistan...

Originally Posted by Marlow

http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content ... 1760.shtml

Wonder if it's true... About the killed civilians.

Originally Posted by starrysky

Interesting article. Just skimmed it for now as have no time and have to go but I will read it carefully later. I'm still not into conspiracy theories... Can't believe everything you read. Though who knows? Anything is possible in this mad world.

Well, actually the article is rather positive towards the OPEC. It's my comments which are negatively biased as I was trying to highlight some of the pivotal points of the 'oil theory'. I deliberately choose a 'positively biased' article because the 'negatively biased' articles collect only the evidence supporting their point and leave all the other 'positive' evidence out of scope. And vice-versa.

Regarding the drug-dealing... it's true that some of the 'terrorist' money comes from the drug-dealing and other criminal activity. But I don't think that can be their main source of income. That's because the drugs grow in the fairly static places. So, basically, the terrorists could be traced up the chain starting from the peasants who'd grow the seeds. But that isn't happening. That is because at that level you can't distinguish between the terrorists and the ordinary criminals. And nobody would touch those criminals (for the obvious reasons). Also, the drug-dealing business is dangerous for the terrorists, as the transportation of the drugs is the most vulnerable stage and the routes are usually known to the services. And it's usually sufficient for the services to get one or two persons for the full interrogation (and no human rights guys would intervene to better the fate of the drug dealers) to start rolling up the chain. But the services would not cross interest with the ordinary criminals, so it's important for the terrorists to keep their 'criminal' income not standing out too much.

I can't access Kavkaz Centre! Interesting, since you can access it in Russia. I tried with my home PC (real IP and hidden IP which I use for torrenting...) I also tried with my work laptop! Can other people in the EU or USA access it?

ERROR
The requested URL could not be retrieved

While trying to retrieve the URL: http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content

The following error was encountered:

* Access Denied.

Access control configuration prevents your request from being allowed at this time. Please contact your service provider if you feel this is incorrect.

Your cache administrator is squid@gmx.us.

I wonder why!?
The site is actually located in Sweden...

I read about it a while ago in the Swedish papers -- apparently Russia asked Sweden to ban Kavkaz Centre, but the response was "no" due to "freedom of the press...." Many people got annoyed at this because of the hippocrisy of first banning Pirate Bay at the request of the US, then leave this anti-Russian terrorist up and running. Suicide bombings are obviously more serious than copyright infringements! They at the same hosting company.

Originally Posted by Marlow

Regardless, only $2,000 to attack a mass transit system in London. If such is true, it would not be expensive at all to fund such attacks

That's peanuts (= nothing) for these people! Have a few babies and you get A LOT more than that in welfare benefits per month! No doubt sufficient to execute a terrorist attack.

What is known about the terrorists who did the Moscow metro bombing?

I have no issues reaching Kavkazcenter from here in the US. Someone or something must be blocking you from it, Johanna. Regarding the women (shahidkas) who carried out the bombings, the last I heard they were related to Sa'id Buryatskiy, a militant leader who was killed recently in one of those restive republics in the south.

Coming in late, but I would like to offer profound sympathy to all victims and their families, and echo Italofandorin’s wish for peace in all hearts, Christian or Muslim.

Я хочу выразить глубокое сочувствие к жертвам и их семьям. Может быть у меня наивная вера, но я всегда надеюсь на мир на земле.

Did you read it? - US Helsinki Commission conclusion.

"The architects of Russia’s North Caucasus policy don’t ride the metro, especially not at eight in the morning. These attacks targeted innocent working class people on their way to jobs and schools. If you improve security on these trains, the killers will simply find a softer target. While this attack hit Moscow, it serves as a cry for help to end the violence and poverty in Chechnya and neighboring regions that engender the desperation that makes these sorts of incidents more likely.”

What a shocking statement! I bet their reaction would be different if anyone had made something like that in the USA... They forgot 11th September as if it were long time ago. Anyway, let God be their judge. We are all in his hands.

Originally Posted by Winifred

Coming in late, but I would like to offer profound sympathy to all victims and their families, and echo Italofandorin’s wish for peace in all hearts, Christian or Muslim.

Я хочу выразить глубокое сочувствие _ жертвам и их семьям. Может быть у меня наивная вера, но я всегда надеюсь на мир на земле.

Thank you. We all have to be united at this tragic moment, because terrorism is our joint problem and no one can feel safety while terrorists are walking our streets.

Terrorism is sponsored by secret services around the world. One cannot exist without another and vice versa. They're basically the same thing. Criminals are hiding in the Caucasus mountains, in the deserts of Afghanistan, in Sudan, in Somalia but the same kind of criminals (or probably much worse) sit in the White House, in Kremlin, in the house 10 on the Downing street, in Langley, etc. They probably know each other and I wouldn't be very surprised if terrorist attacks are planned on the highest levels of power.
Without any global and really big enemies the policy of terror is utilized by the governments of modern superpowers in order to frighten the population and justify the strenghtening of their grip on power. Without threats people would start to think that they pay too much taxes, etc.

This world is ruled by criminals and if they need something really badly it doesn't matter if a bunch of civilians would get killed in the process. And ordinary people are idiots if they think that their governments protect them (or at least try to).

ordinary people are idiots if they think that their governments protect them

+1 000 000


P.S. They are.

They are.

Are you calling yourself an idiot by that statement or maybe you think that you are very unique?

Originally Posted by Scrabus

Did you read it? - US Helsinki Commission conclusion.

"The architects of Russia’s North Caucasus policy don’t ride the metro....”

What a shocking statement! I bet their reaction would be different if anyone had made something like that in the USA... They forgot 11th September as if it were long time ago. Anyway, let God be their judge. We are all in his hands.

Good observation. What is the "US Helsinki commission"? Is it that old cold war anti USSR organisation? They are not exactly impartial when it comes to Russia! Unbelievable that they are still around.

Agree; if this had happened in the US, then some small country somewhere would have had to brace itself for an invasion in the name of "war against terrorism"... Iran and North Korea are next on the "list", I think. Iran has oil, so they are probably first.

Really, they should leave it to the Russian people to criticise their leaders for their Caucasus policies and and for whether or not they travel by metro. And I highly doubt the leaders of the "US Helsinki Commissions" travel by metro themselves!

I really wonder what regular people in Moscow and other Russian cities think about the attacks and what should be done?

And I'd really like to know why I am a not "allowed" to watch Kavkaz Centre from they UK. It seems to be blocked for all UK IP addresses. I don't understand who would block it...

Oh, one more thing: Some of the Caucasian separatists have political asylum in the UK and other EU countries! Pretty outrageous! Would we give asylum to Osama bin Laden too?