Thread: Life in our countries - "good, bad and ugly"...

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

There's a reason, you know, that the airborne nuclear command center of the US during the Cold War was called Operation Looking Glass. (Note that in US English, a зеркало is invariably called a "mirror"; the only time we Merkins ever use the phrase "looking glass" is when we intend it as a reference to Lewis Carroll.)

It is said that Lewis Carroll based his classic "Through the Looking Glass" on his own travels in Russia. I am not sure it was ever confirmed if this is true, but it would not surprise me in the slightest and in fact, in that context, Alice and the Cheshire Cat and the Mad Hatter all take on an even fuller dimension.

Originally Posted by Deborski

It is said that Lewis Carroll based his classic "Through the Looking Glass" on his own travels in Russia. I am not sure it was ever confirmed if this is true, but it would not surprise me in the slightest and in fact, in that context, Alice and the Cheshire Cat and the Mad Hatter all take on an even fuller dimension.

Really, he went to Russia?! Had no idea. I don't really see any correlation between Russia and Through the Looking Glass, but I'm not exactly a literature connoisseur.

Originally Posted by Deborski

I have a stack of issues dating back to the Brezhnev and Krushchev eras and they actually pointed out the flaws with capitalism fairly accurately. In fact, I was leafing through some of them recently and it struck me that the cartoons in them are still quite relevant today. In fact, maybe especially relevant.

I had the experience growing up of being subjected to a LOT of left wing stuff, anti-americanism etc. You don't have to be from the USSR for that, really. Once I started becoming aware of it, quite young, I totally resented having it subtly and not-so-subtly in-your-face from TV, radio and papers. Not because it wasn't true, but because it was tiresome and patronising.
And the social pressure was frustrating; woe to the child who'd not fully play along with the topics du jour in school. Peace, solidarity, anti-imperialism etc, etc. Oh well,

And I eventually (90s) I rejected it quite thoroughly, becoming a neo liberal, pro EU etc.

The trouble, like you say, is that the things the leftist people, are/were saying, is true. It's happening.
It can be substantiated, observed and it's going on right under your nose, whether you have a problem with it, or think it's acceptable. It's not a conspiracy or a daydream. That's why it's so hard to ignore it.

Whether revolution, and the ideas the Marx & co promoted are the actual solution, is another problem though. Perhaps they could diagnose the illness but their proposed cure was ultimately never going to work, or the price/flipside is too unacceptable.

In terms of the opinions stuffed down your throat, it's just been a U-turn, and instead of solidarity and all that, it's now globalism, political correctness, consumerism and myths about the utter evilness of, for example, communism. And now, just like then, some people drank the kool-aid [this is my fave american expression!] and will think exactly what media wants them to think.

For Russians though, the situation is so extreme! From Socialism and communist ideology for real, via "wild East" years and cowboy capitalism, to Putin's Russia of nationalism, conservative values and cronyist economy. One of the many things that makes Russia so fascinating. And probably the whole journey is also what makes Russians so cynical.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Really, he went to Russia?! Had no idea. I don't really see any correlation between Russia and Through the Looking Glass, but I'm not exactly a literature connoisseur.

Indeed it was his only foreign travel experience outside the Isles.

Lewis Carroll in a Russian wonderland of surprises - Telegraph


Excerpt:

The only time the author Lewis Carroll travelled outside the British Isles was when he took a trip to Russia and threw himself into an adventure as impetuously as Alice did when venturing down the rabbit hole.

The role of the White Rabbit was played by Carroll’s friend and colleague Henry Liddon. On July 4, 1867, Liddon suggested to Carroll that they visit Russia, and, just one week later, they set off.

Some researchers have suggested that this is where Carroll got the idea for Through the Looking-Glass. Even if he did not, one thing is clear: the country made a big impression on the writer, who recounted his experiences in his Russian Journal.

First it was St Petersburg, the “city of giants” with its wide streets (“even the secondary streets are wider than any in London”); then Moscow, where he spent two weeks; and Nizhny Novgorod, where he and Liddon dashed to the fair, naively hoping to get there and back in a day.

Carroll spent his time in Russia with the palpable enthusiasm of someone making a new discovery, excitedly transcribing long words, such as zashchishchaiushchikhsya, into his notebook, haggling enthusiastically with cab drivers and writing vivid descriptions of Orthodox churches. Those in Moscow he thought “outwardly resembled cactuses with sprouts in various colours”, seeing their domes as “curved mirrors” in which “pictures of the city’s life are reflected”.

Other resources:

http://moskvoved.blogspot.com/2012/0...cow-intro.html

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...f-lewis-carrol

Interestingly and I think, significantly, Vladimir Nabokov wrote a translation of Lewis Carroll's classic:

http://www.amazon.com/Nabokov-Russia.../dp/0486233162

Originally Posted by Deborski

...Interestingly and I think, significantly, Vladimir Nabokov wrote a translation of Lewis Carroll's classic:

The Nabokov Russian Translation of Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland: Lewis Carroll, Vladimir Nabokov: 9780486233161: Amazon.com: Books

Льюис Кэрролл. Аня в стране чудес

Originally Posted by Hanna

For Russians though, the situation is so extreme! From Socialism and communist ideology for real, via "wild East" years and cowboy capitalism, to Putin's Russia of nationalism, conservative values and cronyist economy. One of the many things that makes Russia so fascinating. And probably the whole journey is also what makes Russians so cynical.

Actually, I can't say for all Russians of course, but some of us are just trying to live here. Falling in love, getting married, giving a birth to children, building houses, giving children education and doing other boring things. Putin and Yeltsin, democracy and communism, Lenin and Marx, Cthulhu and Luke Skywalker: it's just a background noise that affects us more or less.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Actually, I can't say for all Russians of course, but some of us are just trying to live here. Falling in love, getting married, giving a birth to children, building houses, giving children education and doing other boring things. Putin and Yeltsin, democracy and communism, Lenin and Marx, Cthulhu and Luke Skywalker: it's just a background noise that affects us more or less.

Sounds like the majority of people everywhere. As Shakespeare wrote "Hercules will do as he may, still cats will meow and dogs have their day."

Originally Posted by Hanna

For Russians though, the situation is so extreme! From Socialism and communist ideology for real, via "wild East" years and cowboy capitalism, to Putin's Russia of nationalism, conservative values and cronyist economy. One of the many things that makes Russia so fascinating. And probably the whole journey is also what makes Russians so cynical.

Почему вы считаете, что Putin's Russia имеет какое-то отношение к национализму? Как у вас сформировалось это представление?