Thread: Let anyone have their own ways

Originally Posted by Deborski

Вот это да!

Исправьте меня если я ошибаюсь, но эта фраза в самом деле значит "wow" как "ничего себе". Деб использает её означать "that's for sure"-- можно так?

Efremova (Russian Explanatory Dictionary)
вот это да
межд. разг.
Возглас при выражении изумления или удивления на неожиданное сообщение или на неожиданно совершившееся событие; вот так да, вот так так.


Или более определения есть?

Stereotypes are slowly being ruined*

The word ruined seems a bit off, it's mostly used to express negative thoughts, i.e. "you ruined my life!"
Since it's a good thing that stereotypes are vanishing, better say:
Stereotypes are slowly disintegrating.
Stereotypes are slowly being cast away.
Stereotypes are slowly dying out.

That goes for

I think your president being Afro-American is a great thing that helps ruin them.

I think your president being Afro-American is a great thing that helps disintegrating them.
I think your president being Afro-American is a great thing that helps disproving them.

Originally Posted by Valda

Исправьте меня если я ошибаюсь, но эта фраза в самом деле значит "wow" как "ничего себе". Деб использает её означать "that's for sure"-- можно так?

Efremova (Russian Explanatory Dictionary)
вот это да
межд. разг.
Возглас при выражении изумления или удивления на неожиданное сообщение или на неожиданно совершившееся событие; вот так да, вот так так.

Или более определения есть?

I think Efremova’ definition is full. If Deb’s meaning was "that's for sure" she should have gone with “точно”, “это точно”, “это верно”, “это правильно”, “совершенно верно”, “вот именно”.

Originally Posted by Valda

The word ruined seems a bit off, it's mostly used to express negative thoughts, i.e. "you ruined my life!"]

It’s a good remark for me. I guess I would never feel the difference by myself.

Originally Posted by Valda

Stereotypes are slowly being ruined.!"

I understand the difference between “are ruined” and ”are being ruined”. Actually I meant that it was characteristic of all stereotypes to be cast away slowly, irrelative of their existence in the past, present or future.
Is it possible that I used the correct grammar form with my meaning?

Originally Posted by Valda

...helps disintegrating them...

Help + gerund... Hmm. It’s new to me, too. My grammar guide must be too old.
Is "helps to disintegrate" possible, too?

Originally Posted by Helenej

Help + gerund... Hmm. It’s new to me, too. My grammar guide must be too old.
Is "helps to disintegrate" possible, too?

Maybe "destroy" would be a better word, "Helps to destroy them."

Originally Posted by kgcole

Maybe "destroy" would be a better word, "Helps to destroy them."

Ok, Kevin. Thank you.
Nevertheless, "helps to destroy" or "helps destroying" in this particular sentence?

Originally Posted by Helenej

Ok, Kevin. Thank you.
Nevertheless, "helps to destroy" or "helps destroying" in this particular sentence?

Sure...probably several words could be used there. You not bad with the conjugations, so your choice

Originally Posted by kgcole

Sure...probably several words could be used there. You not bad with the conjugations, so your choice

It is not a matter of conjugations. Yet if both are possible then the difference is described by the well-known rule.
As an object, the infinitive refers to a specific occasion of a specific instance, whereas the gerund refers to something that is more general.

Originally Posted by Helenej

It is not a matter of conjugations. Yet if both are possible then the difference is described by the well-known rule.
As an object, the infinitive refers to a specific occasion of a specific instance, whereas the gerund refers to something that is more general.

As is most often the case, you'd have to write the sentence out in completion to see how it should change given each case.
I think your president, being Afro-American, is a great thing that helps to destroy them.
I think your president, being Afro-American, is a great thing that helps with destroying them.

"Ruined" made sense to me. I think there are probably dozens of words you could use for what you were trying to say. "Ruined" might not be the first choice a writer would maker, but as far as conversation goes, it was perfectly understandable to me.

You could also say that stereotypes are erased, destroyed, eliminated, melted, damaged, disintegrated, blown away, eradicated, or mutilated! LOL

I think America has plenty of it's own racism. Obama's presidency has proven that. Racism in America is like an infected wound and Obama's election ripped off the band-aid - exposing all that nasty gangrene to the fresh air and to the eyes of the world.

Originally Posted by Deborski

You could also say that stereotypes are erased, destroyed, eliminated, melted, damaged, disintegrated, blown away, eradicated, or mutilated! LOL

It is a huge number of English synonyms that make me loose heart so often. Who on earth can learn them all?
Very much the same in Russian, though.
Maybe I should have started to learn a Papuan language instead?

Originally Posted by Deborski

"Ruined" made sense to me. I think there are probably dozens of words you could use for what you were trying to say. "Ruined" might not be the first choice a writer would maker, but as far as conversation goes, it was perfectly understandable to me.

You could also say that stereotypes are erased, destroyed, eliminated, melted, damaged, disintegrated, blown away, eradicated, or mutilated! LOL

The art of translation amazes me…how we choose words to represent what we mean. Often there is more than one way to express something, or more than one word. I think it’s important to remain flexible…or at least I’m going to try to be that way as I can.

It is a huge number of English synonyms that make me loose heart so often. Who on earth can learn them all?
Very much the same in Russian, though.

As you say, Helene, it can be discouraging, all that there is to memorize. But I remember reading in a textbook once a note from the author. He said that everyone learns at a different pace, but the important thing is just to keep going. So I guess when we get discouraged it’s important just to put our head down and push on through

I think America has plenty of it's own racism. Obama's presidency has proven that. Racism in America is like an infected wound and Obama's election ripped off the band-aid - exposing all that nasty gangrene to the fresh air and to the eyes of the world.

Racism is definitely an ugly sore. It won’t be in my lifetime that things will get better. And they’ll probably get worse before they get better. Not a nice thought

I think translation is one thing, and conversation is another. Sometimes people get the two things mixed up.

In translation (depending on the situation of course) it can be critical to be precise - to use exactly the word which most correctly conveys what is being said.

In conversation though, I think we as linguists tend to be too nit-picky. The way I see it, if I understand the sense of what they said, and the grammar is correct, then it's good enough!

Ah, I didn't say it "ruin" doesn't make sense! I'm just going from the perspective of what's literate and what's not. I mean, I think Helen got to that point where it's OK to nitpick her writing and give her some deeper analysis. Eradicated is also a good word for it, but I wouldn't use any of the other words Deb suggested to be honest, though it wouldn't be wrong, some words are just more fitting to specific phrases. Don't despair, Helen!

Maybe "destroy" would be a better word, "Helps to destroy them."

I don't like words like destroy and ruin in these cases. These words describe the infliction of great damage, they sound very harsh to my ear without a good reason, whereas words like disintegrate or eradicate describe a relatively slow disabling or extrusion of a certain element. That's why they're better. My tips are intended to make you sound better, and be more careful in your choice of words. Yes, you can use any word and be understandable, I just don't think that's your intention.

I understand the difference between “are ruined” and ”are being ruined”. Actually I meant that it was characteristic of all stereotypes to be cast away slowly, irrelative of their existence in the past, present or future.
Is it possible that I used the correct grammar form with my meaning?

uhm, I guess so. I'm not actually that good at explaining it, just sounded a tad more natural with "being", but maybe you're right

Originally Posted by Deborski

I think translation is one thing, and conversation is another. Sometimes people get the two things mixed up.

In translation (depending on the situation of course) it can be critical to be precise - to use exactly the word which most correctly conveys what is being said.

In conversation though, I think we as linguists tend to be too nit-picky. The way I see it, if I understand the sense of what they said, and the grammar is correct, then it's good enough!

I'm trying to be more flexible. I think in the end sometimes a word can be indispensable, but as I'm learning one can't sacrifice the comprehensible for the sake of retaining word order or exact translation.

I am very comfortable helping people with English since it is my native language and I was also a professional writer for most of my life, so I actually understand quite well what words may sound better than others)))

My previous post was supposed to be a bit humorous with all the crazy examples of words!!!

I do not generally correct people's Russian, because that is not my native language and there are many others on this forum who know that language inside and out and are infinitely more qualified than me! In fact, I am reluctant to even help "teach" someone Russian, because I think it comes off as presumptuous, and I sincerely do not want to teach anyone wrong! I also don't much care for non-native speakers to try to "teach" me. No offense to anyone is intended! Others may see things differently.

I am very comfortable helping people with English since it is my native language and I was also a professional writer for most of my life, so I actually understand quite well what words may sound better than others)))

My previous post was supposed to be a bit humorous with all the crazy examples of words!!!

No one doubts your proficiency, I just said let's nitpick Helen's writing because she's asking for it in her sig Ergo, those of us with such extensive "wordly" experience (such at yourself) can hold her to a higher writing standard. Had she not asked, I wouldn't have bothered.

I also don't much care for non-native speakers to try to "teach" me. No offense to anyone is intended! Others may see things differently.

So, if I see you made an egregious grammatical mistake in Russian of which a Russian speaker already corrected me in the past, for instance.... I should let it go and not correct you?

Meh, your lost :P

Originally Posted by Valda

So, if I see you made an egregious grammatical mistake in Russian of which a Russian speaker already corrected me in the past, for instance.... I should let it go and not correct you?

You know something? In most cases, yes. I would. Because until you truly know a language, inside and out, breathe it, sweat it, feel it, think it... you may not really know a mistake when you see it.

And also... what I said about being presumptuous

Meh, you lost :P

Life is not really a competition, my dear. I think you'll come to see what I mean some day. The race is long. Long. And in the end, it's less about who we beat, and more about who we had a beer with.

I actually meant "your loss"...

Did I call it a competition? Maybe you see it as one, I see it as a collective effort for self-enrichment. In school, we don't only get our information from our teacher, but from our classmates as well. No arrogance, offenses, competition or ego-games involved...or at least, not from side. I'm really quite surprised you see it differently.

But good thing you let me know...

Originally Posted by Valda

I actually meant "your loss"...

Did I call it a competition? Maybe you see it as one, I see it as a collective effort for self-enrichment. In school, we don't only get our information from our teacher, but from our classmates as well. No arrogance, offenses, competition or ego-games involved...or at least, not from side. I'm really quite surprised you see it differently.

But good thing you let me know...

I think perhaps you have misunderstood me.
There was no hostility in anything I said. But somehow, I detect a quarrelsome tone in yours. Have a good evening my dear. Consider the conversation over for me. I do not enjoy arguments)

Heh, no quarrelsome tone whatsoever, relax there... I'm just surprised by your attitude to refuse help since we're all here to learn...having gotten to know you, I kinda expected better. So, I still think it's your loss, but maybe I did misunderstand...I don't know, it's a shame you take things so personally, it wasn't my intent to cause offense.