Thread: Israel-Lebanon conflict

Originally Posted by mashamania

Originally Posted by Ramil

It was christians who used nuclear weapons on civilians.

The non-orthodox and non-catholic Christians.

It was the Allies who used nuclear weapons through the USA. That encompasses a whole lot of people of all creeds and colour.

And, by the way, dropping that Bomb freed my family from sure death in Japaneese prison camps in Burma. Who knows if I would have even been born if not for that bomb!

Originally Posted by SummerKiss

http://www.rambler.ru/db/news/msg.html?mid=8366322

an interesting article for those who would like to read in Russian a bit

It won't be a world world until the other side can fight back. Nor until a major power joins the war, otherwise it's just another regional conflict imo.

Break it up kids

I just told you why! Because all Americans did not vote for him or in other words, follow his religion of republicanism.

And not all Muslims support the slaughter of innocent children in Lebanon. Are they terrorists still?

Originally Posted by mashamania

Originally Posted by SummerKiss

http://www.rambler.ru/db/news/msg.html?mid=8366322

an interesting article for those who would like to read in Russian a bit

It won't be a world world until the other side can fight back. Nor until a major power joins the war, otherwise it's just another regional conflict imo.

I hope so, but to my opinion its not just a regional conflict. Israel is just a toy in somebody's hands. That situation leads to destabilization in the whole region.

Summerkiss I'm totally agree with you.

Israel is just a toy in somebody's hands

That's absolutely true.

Alright, sorry for not being around to respond to every poke at my last post but I'll try to cover all the bases:

I believe the first question was something like "What exactly don't you agree with 100% about DDT's opinions?"

I do not believe there is any real proof that Muhammed married Aisha at 6 nor consumated said marriage at 9. BUT being as he is saying his sources are Hadith I have no way of knowing until I have collected all known Hadith of the prophet and checked for his claims.... which I am plain and simply not interested in doing.

The next most interesting I found was "All you must respect the religions even budism!I'm a muslim,and im quite pleased with being a muslim.My perception of Islam ain't contains any radical *hit *uck radical islam supporters.Btw u plastic saint,Islam ain't smth that you know,you know *uckin nothing about Islam!"

I'm going to work in reverse through this gem: I do know something about Islam, I own and have read two english translations of the meanings of the Qur'an given to me by devout Muslims as gifts. I have also discussed Islam, the Qur'an, Muhammed as well as Isa(Jesus) with muslims not limited simply to members of my uni's MSA(Muslim Student Association) but also their sponsors from the local Muslim community.(well educated people) ~~ At one point I even almost said the shahadha and "reverted"(as you can tell my perspective has changed)... Also, the wordage you use "you must respect the religions
even budism"(it is Buddhism by the way) makes me want to ask.. Why *even* buddhism? One of the most peaceful spiritual paths in existence and it is your *even*... why not, say... "even Asatru"? or "even Hinduism"? Also... do you realize that by respecting these religions you are going directly against the word of God(Allah) as per the Qur'an? The only religions you can *respect* are those of "the Book"~ Judaism, Christianity, and of course the final revelation Islam. To wrap it all up: I don't *have* to respect all religions... If I did then I would just be a doormat for people who believe I'm evil or that I shouldn't be taught certain scientific theories...

Next attack/statement.. to the person who said he believes my existence shouldn't be tolerated: Come on over and try to stop it from being tolerated, even embraced. ^^

Everyone quoting casualties on the lebanese side: Their people started a war. In war there are casualties. Anways, many of those children would have probably grown up enamored by hezbollah or some other group anyways and if not joined them at least supported them... yeah sure its sad for innocents to die, but if it leads to the downfall of groups like Hezbollah: Acceptable Losses. (just like the israeli civilians and children dieing are acceptable losses)

To the people who keep pushing facts about Christian atrocities into the conversation: Who cares? I know I don't. I'm not a christian and I see what those people did in the name of jesus as intolerable just as much as I see islamist's current actions... I think Israel should exist mostly because I think the West and Western interests need a physical presence in the region; not for religious reasons. These arguments hold no bearing on the conversation anyways.

~~Peace

Originally Posted by Plastic-Saint

Everyone quoting casualties on the lebanese side: Their people started a war. In war there are casualties. Anways, many of those children would have probably grown up enamored by hezbollah or some other group anyways and if not joined them at least supported them... yeah sure its sad for innocents to die, but if it leads to the downfall of groups like Hezbollah: Acceptable Losses. (just like the israeli civilians and children dieing are acceptable losses)

Is a kidnapping of 2 soldiers a real reason for beginning of war and massacre??? I dont think so, because if it was like that, Russia should start total bombing of Ukraine immediately, just because they are stealing our natural gas!

For all those who blame Russia for Chechnia. First of all its a part of our country and not a sovereign state. And secondly, we never bombed innocent civilians, villages or schools or hospitals or other infrastaructure of the country, on the countrary! hundreds of our soldiers died saving chechenian children.

Originally Posted by SummerKiss

Russia should start total bombing of Ukraine immediately, just because they are stealing our natural gas!

Hell yea!

Then make it a republic under the control of the Russian goverment again.

Украинцы всех стран... Сдайтесь!

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Originally Posted by SummerKiss

Russia should start total bombing of Ukraine immediately, just because they are stealing our natural gas!

Hell yea!

Then make it a republic under the control of the Russian goverment again.

Украинцы всех стран... Сдайтесь!

For what???? It was their decision to be independant, so now its time to pay for it and pay a real price for our natural resources.

You didn't get the joke....


Пролетерии(Spelling) всех стран - соединись!

See... it's funny!

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

You didn't get the joke....


Пролетерии(Spelling) всех стран - соединись!

See... it's funny!

)) hehe you know I work for Gazprom so I just could not get that jokeeee

Originally Posted by SummerKiss

I dont think so, because if it was like that, Russia should start total bombing of Ukraine immediately, just because they are stealing our natural gas!

Yeah, but if you start bombing Ukraine, the hell with the atrocities, what's more important is Russia would lose a customer for its natural gas. lol jk.

But I'm only partly joking because that's why it's important to have economic ties with countries around the world and particularly with your neighbors, even if you don't have the same religion or political system. Countries are be less willing to bomb each other if it means losing billions of dollars in trade. Sad to say, that is a better deterrent for war than the prospect of atrocities. But of course the problem in the Middle East is Israel is an ostracized member of the neighborhood. What the Middle East needs is more capitalism and less fanaticism, imo.

SummerKiss: No, the kidnapping of 2 soldiers isn't good enough a reason to go to war. But, Hezbollah has been attacking and harassing Israel for a very very long time... the kidnappings and subsequent bloody fleeing across the border into lebanon were simply the last straw in a massive pile of straws that broke the proverbial camel's back. **EDIT/Addition: After a bit of thought... the kidnapping of 2 soldiers is good enough reason for some sort of military action to try and free them... if for no one else than their families.**

"But of course the problem in the Middle East is Israel is an ostracized member of the neighborhood. What the Middle East needs is more capitalism and less fanaticism, imo."

Really, that is the problem. I agree. If the rest of the Middle East would get over having jews in "their" region and everyone would start exchanging goods and ideals we could see some sort of peace... but the fanatics show no sign of dampening their fervor any time soon, unfortunately.

Originally Posted by mashamania

Originally Posted by SummerKiss

I dont think so, because if it was like that, Russia should start total bombing of Ukraine immediately, just because they are stealing our natural gas!

Yeah, but if you start bombing Ukraine, the hell with the atrocities, what's more important is Russia would lose a customer for its natural gas.

But I'm only partly joking because that's why it's important to have economic ties with countries around the world and particularly with your neighbors, even if you don't have the same religion or political system. Countries are be less willing to bomb each other if it means losing billions of dollars in trade. Sad to say, that is a better deterrent for war than the prospect of atrocities. But of course the problem in the Middle East is Israel is an ostracized member of the neighborhood. What the Middle East needs is more capitalism and less fanaticism, imo.

Hehe come onnn, Unkraine is not owr main natural gas customer, on the contrary we loose large amount of money selling gas by low prices.

What the Middle East needs is more capitalism and less fanaticism - with that I agree, but the lebanese economy was growing up and now after such destruction it will be thrown 15 years back.

Originally Posted by Plastic-Saint

"But of course the problem in the Middle East is Israel is an ostracized member of the neighborhood. What the Middle East needs is more capitalism and less fanaticism, imo."

Really, that is the problem. I agree. If the rest of the Middle East would get over having jews in "their" region and everyone would start exchanging goods and ideals we could see some sort of peace... but the fanatics show no sign of dampening their fervor any time soon, unfortunately.

If Israel would stop treating most of its Arab population as a conquered people, subjecting them to an oppressive military presence, restricting their movements, denying them any democratic voice in the state that rules them and kicking them out of their homes to make way for expanding settlements, it might be a whole lot easier for people in the region to accept Israel's presence. Israel's own treatment of its Palestinian population has fuelled resentment and hostility towards it. The images of death and destruction in Lebanon only add to this - regardless of who started it or whether the campaign is justified or not.

When I was younger and first started to learn about the Middle East, my sympathies were overwhelmingly with Israel. However as I started to learn more about Israel's behaviour in the West Bank and Gaza and particularly the impact of settlement activity on Palestinian life my views changed completely. While most Americans hear very little if anything about this, everyone in the Middle East knows about it. The unresolved Palestinian-Israeli conflict is what keeps all of this going and provides the fanatics with just the reports and images they need to help spread their ideologies.

Originally Posted by SummerKiss

but the lebanese economy was growing up and now after such destruction it will be thrown 15 years back.

True. And seeing your homeland crushed to rubble will only plant bitter seeds in your heart, even if you are a Lebanese against Hezbollah.

Originally Posted by mashamania

Originally Posted by SummerKiss

but the lebanese economy was growing up and now after such destruction it will be thrown 15 years back.

True. And seeing your homeland crushed to rubble will only plant bitter seeds in your heart, even if you are a Lebanese against Hezbollah.

I seriously doubt it. Seeing your homeland crushed to rubble will inspire even more hate agains those who actually crushed it, i.e. Israel. And Hezbollah would seem like their defender. It always happens this way. To think that by destroying a house would make its owner hate hezbollah - is a gross error.

That is what mashamania is saying, Ramil!

Originally Posted by DDT

That is what mashamania is saying, Ramil!

Oops, I didn't catch the point then, sorry.