Thread: Israel-Lebanon conflict

Originally Posted by Орчун

All you must respect the religions even budism!

Nobody has to respect anything!
And what do you mean by the word "even"?
Buddhism is probably the most peaceful religion in the world.

I can't think of it being better said, DDT.

Did anyone notice that while everyone is squawking about the 60 killed Lebanese (and some of them probably supporters of Hizballa) no one ever talks about Israel's losses?
Does no one realize Israel is acting in self-defense?

My Israeli friend is having to take cover for his life, and is seeing Israeli soldiers being killed every day.

Originally Posted by DDT

Originally Posted by TATY

There are Arabs who live in Israel proper (i.e. not in the West Bank or Gaza), by the way.

Yes and they, Arabs with Israei citizenship, seem to be quite content. Unlike Jews who live in Arab countries.

Originally Posted by TATY

But also, I am quite uncomfortable with certain people's blatant Islamophobia. I must say I sort of agree with the points raised, but it isn't done in the most sensitive way.

Ah!.......that would be me! I don't have a problem with slamming Islam anymore than I have a problem slamming Jim Jones or that other crazy cult that all killed themselves because Aliens from the comet Halebop were coming to save their souls or Hitler's Nazi Party or the Pope and early Catholics for that matter.

Why hell, the neo nazis get slammed everytime they comb their hair like Hitler and they haven't done a fraction of the damage that Islam has. Muslims follow the teachings of a homicidal lunatic and so do neo nazis. Why should we give Islam a break?

Originally Posted by TATY

but I wouldn't go up to a Christian and shout "JESUS WAS JUST A CARPENTER WHO TALKED TO MUCH AND WASN'T EVEN THE SON OF GOD AND YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR OWN MIND AND DO WHATEVER SOME INACCURATE ANCIENT BOOK TELLS YOU".

I think you would.....if Christians were spreading their religion by rapings, beheadings, fatwahs and jihads!

Originally Posted by TATY

I saw an interesting piece on the BBC news yesterday (the BBC was criticised a couple of years ago, by the way, for being too pro-Israel),

By the extreme radical left!

Originally Posted by Kirill2142

About 60 (!) Lebanese were killed in bomb shelter today... More than 20 children... So DO YOU SUPPORT Israel?

Er ........yes!

Originally Posted by Kirill2142

About 60 (!) Lebanese were killed in bomb shelter today... More than 20 children... So DO YOU SUPPORT Israel?

YEP.

If Lebenon wasnt hiding terrorists it wouldn't have ever happend.

Sept 1st 2004

344 People were killed in a school by Islamic extremists including over 150 children, 4 aid workers, and 11 Russian Military members. 700 were hospitalized... Do you still feel sorry for countries that hide terrorists???

Originally Posted by TATY

There are Arabs who live in Israel proper (i.e. not in the West Bank or Gaza), by the way.

Close to 20% of the Israeli population are Arabs and seem to be reasonably well integrated into Israeli society, particularly in Haifa. (In fact several of those killed by Hezbollah rockets have actually been Arabs). They have full citizenship and have political representatives in the Israeli parliament. But the situation for those Arabs who live outside Israel proper is very different. They are not Israeli citizens and do not have any political voice inside Israel itself despite being controlled by that state. Israel did not want to make them citizens because it would greatly diminish the Jewish majority and over time could even have resulted in an Arab majority within Israel.

Originally Posted by TATY

Some hippy girl at university who is a member of the "Friends of Palestine Society" assured me that ALL Arabs in Israel lived in the West Bank or Gaza and under no circumstances were permitted to enter the main part of Israel. That's funny, because as well as the many thousands of Arabs living in Israel proper, I read an article on the BBC news site which had a Palestinian man saying Israeli road blocks were making it take him hours and hours to get to Tel-Aviv where he often did business. I.e., people are allowed to travel from the Palestinian territories out into Israel. Also, how does she think these suicide bombers manage to target places like Tel-Aviv?

The "hippy girl" is obviously misinformed and should really get her facts straight before assuring anyone of anything.

Originally Posted by TATY

Of course there are strict regulations governing where Arabs can live and such and also governing the movements of residents from the Palestinian territories into Israel.

And I hear and read lots of talk about the Arabs living in Gaza and West Bank being those who were kicked off their land by the Jews when Israel was formed. Yes probably most of them are. But there was also a large influx of Arabs from neighboring countries under the British mandate. The modern term Palestinian does not refer to a specific ethnicity. It is just an Arab who lives in Palestine. So, an Egyptian family who moved to Palestine in say 1940, and then after the formation of Israel moved into the Gaza strip, would be called Palestinian, and there descendants would be too.

But also, I am quite uncomfortable with certain people's blatant Islamophobia. I must say I sort of agree with the points raised, but it isn't done in the most sensitive way. If you are born into a religion it is very difficult to see any fault in it. I believe all religion is a load of cr@p, but I wouldn't go up to a Christian and shout "JESUS WAS JUST A CARPENTER WHO TALKED TO MUCH AND WASN'T EVEN THE SON OF GOD AND YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR OWN MIND AND DO WHATEVER SOME INACCURATE ANCIENT BOOK TELLS YOU".

Yeah, you don't choose the religion you're born into and even if you disagree with a religion, there's no need to be so deeply offensive. If someone attacks your beliefs in such an outrageously offensive manner as has been displayed in this thread, you're more likely to believe it more rather than change your mind. This type of thing only polarizes opinion further and creates bad feeling.

Originally Posted by TATY

ALSO!

I saw an interesting piece on the BBC news yesterday (the BBC was criticised a couple of years ago, by the way, for being too pro-Israel),

I must say, I never thought of the BBC as being pro-Israel.

Originally Posted by TATY

about how it is not the Jewish lobby in America that drives the country's support for Israel, it is in fact crazy evangelical Christians who believe in something called "End time theology". Basically in the Bible it says for Jesus to return to Earth the Jews must be gathered in Israel, and also that when he returns he will judge the gentiles (non-Jews) treatment of the Jews. Thus, these evangelical Christians (who there are a lot of, and in very high places) are very pro-Israel. Couple with that they are likely to be very pro-American and therefore hate Muslims because of 9/11.

Yes, this is what I was referring to in my previous post. This theology is known as Dispensationalism and is very popular among Evangelical Christians. The idea is that Christ will come again and the Jews will accept him and convert to Christianity at that time. The 1967 war had a huge impact on the popularity of these ideas. The fact that Israel could prevail over so many Arab armies and achieve such a crushing victory was considered to be the result of God's intervention and proof that the Dispensationalist interpretation of the Bible was true and a clear sign that Christ would come again. In fact some Evangelicals fully expected it to happen in 1967. Since that time the Evangelicals have strongly supported Israel and have been deeply hostile to the Palestinian cause. I even remember reading somewhere that some Evangelical groups make collections to fund and support Israeli settlements in the West Bank. In earlier years though, Evangelicals had been some of the strongest anti-Semitic voices in the US. How times change!

Yeah, you don't choose the religion you're born into and even if you disagree with a religion, there's no need to be so deeply offensive. If someone attacks your beliefs in such an outrageously offensive manner as has been displayed in this thread, you're more likely to believe it more rather than change your mind. This type of thing only polarizes opinion further and creates bad feeling.

Yes I agree completely. Even though I don't exactly agree with everything Islam represents, I am not going to go around hassling it because If I had been born there I would be a Muslim too.

Anyway, whether you hate them or not they aren't going any where any time soon...

I saw an interesting piece on the BBC news yesterday (the BBC was criticised a couple of years ago, by the way, for being too pro-Israel), about how it is not the Jewish lobby in America that drives the country's support for Israel, it is in fact crazy evangelical Christians who believe in something called "End time theology". Basically in the Bible it says for Jesus to return to Earth the Jews must be gathered in Israel, and also that when he returns he will judge the gentiles (non-Jews) treatment of the Jews. Thus, these evangelical Christians (who there are a lot of, and in very high places) are very pro-Israel. Couple with that they are likely to be very pro-American and therefore hate Muslims because of 9/11.

This seems to me to be just as twisted as some of the Islamic beliefs. Would these people be willing to finance the killing of innocent civilians just so their prophecy might come true? Just like the Lebanese government harbours terrorists so they can wipe out the Jews or whatever.

Yeah, you don't choose the religion you're born into and even if you disagree with a religion, there's no need to be so deeply offensive. If someone attacks your beliefs in such an outrageously offensive manner as has been displayed in this thread, you're more likely to believe it more rather than change your mind. This type of thing only polarizes opinion further and creates bad feeling.

What are you talking about? Anyone can believe whatever they want. You believe that just because someone is born somewhere automatically makes them brainwashed cyborgs to religion?

One of my teachers from Afghanistan told us about how he doesnt believe in Islam, and after going through school and being forced to read the koran he saw how it couldn't make sense and chose to be an athiest. This was in the 70's. When the USSR came into afghanistan in the 80's he moved to Rostov on don, and after the collapse of the USSR he moved to America.

Alot of people are weak(er) than others, thats why they turn to things like, Religion, or Emo to guide thier lives. Others think for themselves and make their own decisions

That's righr. Anyone can decide to use their brain and believe differently. Check this ex Mus woman out! Her name is Wafa Sultan:-
Click here

and here

and here too mofo's

I find it ironic that people who say that Islam is backward and whatnot are being exactly that in discussing ISlam.

It was quite difficult for me, a Muslim, to read through this thread and not be offended. If you disagree with my religion, that's fine, but there is no reason to be overtly offensive and make insensitive comments, especially to those who did nothing and simply try to carry on a normal life.

I'm not out to kill all non-Muslims, and neither is any Muslim I know. Though it's become a bit burdersome to stand up for my religion, I'll still do it out of my sheer belief that perhaps one day you'll change your mind.

But if you want to believe that Islam is this evil religion that's set on dominating the world, then by all means, you have the right to believe whatever, but don't go berserk and insult Muslims.

If you disagree with Islam, say it! But don't resort to vulgarity, it's unnecessary and it does hurt some people.

Originally Posted by Yazeed

If you disagree with Islam, say it! But don't resort to vulgarity, it's unnecessary and it does hurt some people.

Well it is hard not to use vulgarity when the guy you worship raped is captives wifes and molested an 8 year old girl, Aisha. I'd call that vulgar, wouldn't you?

If you want to follow a mass murderer I suggest that you do it in secret and not complain when somebody mentions that he was a mass murderer.


If you don't like it why don't you try Buddhism ?

Islam has nothing to do with terrorism.
It's just very convenient for certain people (non-islamic, by the way) to stir arabs into religious frenzy. By offending religious sense of all arabic world one could never hope for any peace there.
What will young arab children in Lebanon learn from their teachers? That killing is wrong? That jews and arabs will have to learn to live together? No, they will learn that jews are bad because they've bombed their school/home. They don't care about the causes of the war. Neither they care for Hezbollah, Government and other adult matters. They just want to go out and play. They should be taught how to be tolerable and not how to hate. By bombing arabs jews would accomplish nothing but raising another generation of jews-haters.
There are much more arabs than jews in the Middle East and Israel might run out of bombs but it won't kill all arabs.
It's good there are USA which support Israel pouring huge amounts of money in that boiling pot every year, but what will jews do if USA due to some worsening of economy reduces or stops completely the funding of Israel? I'm afraid that in this case Israel will simply cease to exist.

Originally Posted by DDT

Originally Posted by Yazeed

If you disagree with Islam, say it! But don't resort to vulgarity, it's unnecessary and it does hurt some people.

Well it is hard not to use vulgarity when the guy you worship raped is captives wifes and molested an 8 year old girl, Aisha. I'd call that vulgar, wouldn't you?

If you want to follow a mass murderer I suggest that you do it in secret and not complain when somebody mentions that he was a mass murderer.


If you don't like it why don't you try Buddhism ?

I will not dignify this with a response..

But, I'm just curious, where did you find this info? I'd be interested to know.

Originally Posted by TATY

Then why do you think Hizbullah is targetting civillians in Israel?

Becayse they got paid for that. It's very simple. There is a category of people who will do everything for money.
There may be several reasons for that.
- to destroy developing Lebanon economy
- to sabotage the efforts for peace of some moderate islamic governments (and Israel's also)
- to keep the Middle East unstable
- to distract the world from some other disgustful thing taking place in the world right now.
- ...

I would never accept the nothion that all this war is just about religion and religious hate between jews and arabs.

Wars happen because of three and three things only: power, money and territory.

Originally Posted by Yazeed

I will not dignify this with a response..

But, I'm just curious, where did you find this info? I'd be interested to know.

Dear, Yazeed. I'm defenitely not intended to offend you. But I think, if youre an educated muslim you shouldnt just get offended. But tell us how it really written in Koran. Because offended blind believers cut throats insted of teaching IMHO

Originally Posted by Alware

Originally Posted by Yazeed

I will not dignify this with a response..

But, I'm just curious, where did you find this info? I'd be interested to know.

Dear, Yazeed. I'm defenitely not intended to offend you. But I think, if youre an educated muslim you shouldnt just get offended. But tell us how it really written in Koran. Because offended blind believers cut throats insted of teaching IMHO

'How' what is written in the Koran?

Just to add to what I have stated.
I hate terrorism, and it truly makes me angry to see Muslims terrorists committing atrocious acts. My family, my relatives and the peeople I know share these feelings. This is a small, small friction of Muslims who are terrorists. You can come up a thousand Muslim terrorist group and each has a thousand members, it still would be less than 0.01%.

I hate fundamentalists, and I would help anyone against Islamic fundamentalists, but please don't put the moderate Muslims in the same picture as these terrorists.

Originally Posted by Yazeed

'How' what is written in the Koran?

The life of Muhammed.

Originally Posted by Ramil

Originally Posted by TATY

Then why do you think Hizbullah is targetting civillians in Israel?

Becayse they got paid for that. It's very simple. There is a category of people who will do everything for money.
There may be several reasons for that.
- to destroy developing Lebanon economy
- to sabotage the efforts for peace of some moderate islamic governments (and Israel's also)
- to keep the Middle East unstable
- to distract the world from some other disgustful thing taking place in the world right now.
- ...

I would never accept the nothion that all this war is just about religion and religious hate between jews and arabs.

Wars happen because of three and three things only: power, money and territory.

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT

Originally Posted by Yazeed

But, I'm just curious, where did you find this info? I'd be interested to know.

Yes, he had most or all of his detractors killed in similar fashion. This lady was just a poet that he didn't like. The story is taken from Hadith.

Muhammad was enraged at their criticism. When he heard the verses composed by Asma Bint Marwan he was infuriated and screamed aloud, "Will no one rid me of this daughter of Marwan!" That very night a gang of Muslims set out to do the dirty deed. They broke into the poets' house. She was lying in in her bedroom suckling her newborn child, while her other small children slept nearby. The Muslims tore the newborn infant off her breast and hacked it to pieces before her very eyes. They then made her watch the murder of all four of her children, before raping and then stabbing her repeatedly to death. After the murder when the Muslims went to inform the Prophet, he said "You have done a service to Allah and his Messenger, her life was not worth even two goats!"

http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/mohwar1.html
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/chapter.aspx?g=401&i=41023
http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index. ... le&sid=142
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm

Sahih Bukhari
• "Narrated 'Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years old). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, 'Best wishes and God's blessing and a good luck.' Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage)." [7]
• "Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)." [8]
• Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88 "Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)."
• Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236. "Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed (sic – consummated) that marriage when she was nine years old."
• Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65 "Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Originally Posted by Kirill2142

About 60 (!) Lebanese were killed in bomb shelter today... More than 20 children... So DO YOU SUPPORT Israel?

YEP.

If Lebenon wasnt hiding terrorists it wouldn't have ever happend.

Sept 1st 2004

344 People were killed in a school by Islamic extremists including over 150 children, 4 aid workers, and 11 Russian Military members. 700 were hospitalized... Do you still feel sorry for countries that hide terrorists???

More than 20 children were killed! Do you think they supported terrorists?
Why did they attack bomb shelter? Was it necessary to kill'em?

Originally Posted by DDL

My Israeli friend is having to take cover for his life, and is seeing Israeli soldiers being killed every day.

They're soldiers! They have to take part in the battle, and sometimes they are killed. It's common at war, isn't it?

D'u know Nostradamus or someone like this? (I don't know the original name of him in English). He predicted that the Third World War would come from the the Middle East (the Near East). And every big war comes in the beginning of the century. Strange coincidence, ah? Maybe it would be better to destroy either Lebanon or Israel to prevent the war?
Just think - to kill 1 million of people and save 10 millions or save 1 million and kill 10 millions of people (so that one million will die at war later). And it is predicted that the Armageddon would come just after the war! You can disagree with me, you can agree. Everyone who read this will think - omg, maybe this is true?