Thread: disrespect to Russian culture!

Originally Posted by BETEP

Originally Posted by TATY

Like when people say "White Russia" I think that's taking translaiton a bit too far.

Interestingly, but historically that's right ("Белая Русь").

Originally Posted by Nixer

Because there are some rights in Russian. If they speak Russian of course. So they never say "Георгий Буш" or even "Юрий Буш". Maybe just as a joke.

Клавка Шифер.

Yes that's what I'm saying. I know Belorus means White Russia. But you don't have to translate. Did people ever say Southslavland? No.

hehe

Originally Posted by Nixer

So they never say "Георгий Буш" or even "Юрий Буш". Maybe just as a joke.

Жора Куст - на некоторых форумах

Originally Posted by TATY

Yes that's what I'm saying. I know Belorus means White Russia. But you don't have to translate. Did people ever say Southslavland? No.

You didn't get. "Белая Русь" is an official term (it's the only name you shoud use when you are saying about 11-12 ages). It sounds sorta America instead USA.

Originally Posted by JJ

Китайцы, наверно, тоже обижаются - они ведь "хань" и живут в Чжунго, а их - "китайцы", "Китай"....

The origin of this word is actually kind of interesting. The word is derived from "Khitan", which was the name of some Mongol kingdom in the Uighur area. Apparently Russians adopted this term whereas other countries derived something from "Chin"(from the Qin dynasty).

just imagin, you are reading russian folk tale and see such names: Johannes Zarevitsch(or even Kaiser), and you think that this is normal? People will absolutely forget that they are reading RUSSIAN story, it's nonsence!

Considering that in "War and Peace" people speak French half the time, sometimes I forget too.

Originally Posted by scotcher

So do you believe that when Russians decline western male names (Джордж Буш --> Джорджа Буша -->Джордже Буше etc) , that they are disrespecting the English language, which doesn't decline names in this way?

Stop being paranoid.

Something like this happens with brand names. Take for example Coka-Cola, it doesn't decline in the ads: "Всегда с Кока-кола, пейте Кока-кола". F..., I hate this. I'll always decline Кока-колу.

That'll be an example of Coca Cola's Corporate Brand Control Department (International) at work right there.

Yeah, you go ahead and decline away. Fight the power, brother

Yes that's what I'm saying. I know Belorus means White Russia. But you don't have to translate. Did people ever say Southslavland?

There is Russland in German

Кстати, а почему мы говорим Джордж Буш, но английский король Георг? У них же ондинаковые имена.

потому что буш новодельный а европейским королям в русском языке сотни лет ...наверное

Originally Posted by scotcher

So do you believe that when Russians decline western male names (Джордж Буш --> Джорджа Буша -->Джордже Буше etc) , that they are disrespecting the English language, which doesn't decline names in this way?

Stop being paranoid.

read my posts more attentively, i ment absolutely another thing...if writing Theodoro Dostoievski isn't a disrespect, then why do people do it? I doubt that this is a tradition, simply arrogance, or just non comprehension of another culture and no will to understand and to know it...it seems to me that people who translate russian books dont really know where russia is...

Originally Posted by Артемида

read my posts more attentively, i ment absolutely another thing...if writing Theodoro Dostoievski isn't a disrespect, then why do people do it?

My guess would be laziness. The point of the translation is to make the reader's life as easy as possible, and since the reader most likely couldn't care less about the accuracy of the way names were interpreted, they are often swapped for a related name from the target language.

Besides, all the examples you've used are historical figures who's names were first translated decades or even centuries ago. They would be unlikely to be treated the same way now (in fact, I have an English translation of "Преступление и Наказание" right here where Федор is written as Fyodor, which is as close to a phonetic transliteration as is possible, in spite of the historical tendency to represent it as Theodore)

If you were a little more attentive yourself you would have noticed that Nixer already gave an example of where Russian has exactly the same contradiction: Джордж Буш/ король Георг. Both of these people were called George. Were Russians who called Prince George 'король Георг' being disresectful, arrogant, or lacking in understanding of a foreign culture, or were they just using a name they knew?

I doubt that this is a tradition, simply arrogance, or just non comprehension of another culture and no will to understand and to know it...it seems to me that people who translate russian books dont really know where russia is...

Great, go ahead, doubt it if you want to. You can walk around with a needless chip on your shoulder for the rest of your life for all I care, just don't expect everyone to automatically go along with it.

I'd like to know what motive you think a translator, someone who has devoted a large part of his life to studying another language and culture, would vindictively choose to insult that culture through something as inobtrusive as a name after spending weeks or months painstakingly translating the rest of the text, but I wont ask since I don't believe paranoia is ever reasoned.

Originally Posted by Niamh

Sure you say ГИТЛЕР instead of Hitler and Hamlet takes G too.

Dunno, I think most people in my counrty say Амлет, Итлер - we tend to drop our haitches (the г in such words is corresponds to the Germanic H and when it is pronounced it's pronounced as in the interjection ага - that is aha, nobody says aga).

This is difficult to realise that Джордж and Георг are the same name.

Most people in Russia, if you ask them, will say that George V and George Bush had different names.

May be there is another issue: in the Medieval many European monarchs married abroad, changed their countries, divided and merged them. So in different languages the name of a person would be different. Why the person must be called according the English rules if he is from France or the opposite. So, there was some "international" forms of names in use.

For example, we say "Карл Великий", in spite that French call him "Шарль". In Germany he is Karl though. But according to XX century we say "Шарль де Голль".

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Originally Posted by Niamh

Sure you say ГИТЛЕР instead of Hitler and Hamlet takes G too.

Dunno, I think most people in my counrty say Амлет, Итлер - we tend to drop our haitches (the г in such words is corresponds to the Germanic H and when it is pronounced it's pronounced as in the interjection ага - that is aha, nobody says aga).

VM, this is what I was thinking the entire time(that the г was actually an "ага" kind of г, not a hard г) until someone told me that Russians actually say "Gitler." Which way is right?

There is hard phoneme in "aha" - not г, but hard й sound or "Ukrainian г". It is not soft.

Yes, we actually say Гитлер (Gitler).

OK, hard, soft, whatever, my point is that it sounds different from the г in Горький.

It sounds exactly the same.

You're saying the г in ага sounds the same as the г in Горький?

Originally Posted by Pravit

You're saying the г in ага sounds the same as the г in Горький?

No, "г" in "ага" is different, it's "г" in "Гитлер" and in "Горький" that sound the same. VM was probably talking about some regional things.

Не думаю, что в России есть регионы, где говорят "Итлер". В русский язык это слово вошло УЖЕ со звуком "г". Во всех СМИ говорили "Гитлер", "гитлеровцы", "антигитлеровская коалиция" и т.д. Может быть, он говорил о другой стране? Он же вроде в Великобритании живёт.