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Thread: Cursive... Is it really that necessary?

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    Cursive... Is it really that necessary?

    I've never been jolly at cursive, even my English cursive- and then this Cyrillic cursive script.... wow .... Do I have to know how to do it? I've had a friend tell me that cursive isn't really used anymore... Is it the truth?

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    Re: Cursive... Is it really that necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by strawberryfynch
    I've had a friend tell me that cursive isn't really used anymore...
    Have I understood you correctly? Your friend told you that Russians use only hand-printed characters, don't join letters?))))
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    Re: Cursive... Is it really that necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by strawberryfynch
    I've had a friend tell me that cursive isn't really used anymore... Is it the truth?
    Either he means that now, when computers are eveywhere, people don't write anymore (they print), or he's 6 years old, and can't use cursive yet.

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    Re: Cursive... Is it really that necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by strawberryfynch
    I've never been jolly at cursive, even my English cursive- and then this Cyrillic cursive script.... wow .... Do I have to know how to do it? I've had a friend tell me that cursive isn't really used anymore... Is it the truth?
    Cursive was invented for fast handwriting. It's really faster than actually drawing letters. Of course, you can draw each letter and be understood by everybody. But, if you actually need a fastwriting skill in your baggage you have to master the handscript.
    Well, let's think of your motives. Imagine you can impress girls by handwriting them love letters in Russian

    And good Russian cursive looks very beautiful, much better than printed letters to my taste, and a sign of a great respect if I receive a handwritten letter instead of a printed one.
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    She means the really curvy fancy Russian cursive that they show in books.

    Strawberry, "cursive" means "hand-written", so yes you do need to know how to write Russian by hand. People in English don't write in block capitals do they? They write joined up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    People in English don't write in block capitals do they? They write joined up.
    In films they always do.

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    Re: Cursive... Is it really that necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Quote Originally Posted by strawberryfynch
    I've never been jolly at cursive, even my English cursive- and then this Cyrillic cursive script.... wow .... Do I have to know how to do it? I've had a friend tell me that cursive isn't really used anymore... Is it the truth?
    Cursive was invented for fast handwriting. It's really faster than actually drawing letters. Of course, you can draw each letter and be understood by everybody. But, if you actually need a fastwriting skill in your baggage you have to master the handscript.
    Well, let's think of your motives. Imagine you can impress girls by handwriting them love letters in Russian

    And good Russian cursive looks very beautiful, much better than printed letters to my taste, and a sign of a great respect if I receive a handwritten letter instead of a printed one.
    I agree that it looks beautiful and is faster to write and that I can impress guys with a love letter in handwritten Russian... BUT IT'S SOOOOO HARD.... and my friend just meant that people use computers more and sometimes print and that cursive, although it looks awesome.... I guess I just suck it up and practice cursive like mad... *sighs* So can I use printed letters for informal things like my "notes to self" and cursive letters for formal things like letters and stuff like that?

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    Re: Cursive... Is it really that necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by strawberryfynch
    I agree that it looks beautiful and is faster to write and that I can impress guys with a love letter in handwritten Russian... BUT IT'S SOOOOO HARD.... and my friend just meant that people use computers more and sometimes print and that cursive, although it looks awesome.... I guess I just suck it up and practice cursive like mad... *sighs* So can I use printed letters for informal things like my "notes to self" and cursive letters for formal things like letters and stuff like that?
    Do you really think it's so hard? You do can use cursive in English, don't you? It's not too different.

    Cursive isn't always beautiful, many people have rather ugly handwriting, but it's very widely used.
    Block letters mostly used by small kids, or by adults in captions or small notes (especially if the letters should be seen from the distance, for example: "I'll be back in 5 minutes" or "Don't eat me! I'm Sasha's sandwich" ), and such.

    Here are examples of notes in coursive (click to see):

    1) (semi-informal) NOTE to the mountain climbers group (time of the arrival, supervisor's name, etc.)
    2) (very informal) NOTE from father to son ("sausages are in the fridge", etc.) WARNING - obscene language
    These notes are not beautiful, it's a usual scribbling by men in a hurry.

    So as you see coursive isn't used only in formal letters. Most Russians use it in notes to self too, since nobody percive it as hard (actually to write in block letters is "harder", because it takes more time).

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    Re: Cursive... Is it really that necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by strawberryfynch
    I've never been jolly at cursive, even my English cursive- and then this Cyrillic cursive script.... wow .... Do I have to know how to do it? I've had a friend tell me that cursive isn't really used anymore... Is it the truth?
    It all comes to how much you want to learn the language i guess... do you think that 'oh i want to be like a russian one day'? If yes, then you should learn it, of course!

    But for me, i found writing in cursive for me takes twice as long, and is twice as hard to read (my handwriting is horrible to start.. ) But i remember someone telling me as a boy that sloppy handwritting is a sign that your mind works faster than you can write, meaning you are very intelligent. So maybe i am just a genius?
    Io seeeiiiii che non posso parlare il russo come tu....

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    По моему, cursive это когда все буквы написанны слитно. Так что, я бы не считал примеры, приведенные Громозекой образцами cursive. Но, может быть, определение курсива зависит от говорящего и страны.

    По-моему, это cursive:
    http://www.uni-potsdam.de/u/germanis...zard-of-oz.gif

    Я знаю одного человека, который так пишет - это моя 80-летняя бабушка

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    Quote Originally Posted by basurero
    По моему, cursive это когда все буквы написанны слитно. Так что, я бы не считал примеры, приведенные Громозекой образцами cursive. Но, может быть, определение курсива зависит от говорящего и страны.
    Для меня приведенные записки - самый настоящий "курсив", хоть и не очень аккуратный. Но ты прав, у нас различается терминология, и в таком случае, я не вижу в английском языке аналога русского выражения "рукописный текст".

    Другими словами, у нас письмо от руки не называется "курсивом". В русском языке "курсив" - название одной из разновидностей типографских шрифтов (italic). И хотя кое-где в интернете рукописный текст уже называют по аналогии с английским "курсивом", это неправильно.

    КУРСИВ, –а, м. Наклонный (вправо) типографский шрифт, подобный рукописному почерку.
    "Толковый словарь Ожегова"


    Зато в русском различают печатные (block letters) и рукописные (разг. "письменные") буквы (и переводят это как "cursive"). Но когда человек пишет "рукописными" буквами, он не обязательно соединяет их! Это зависит от особенностей почерка и от скорости письма, но ведь текст от этого не превращается в "печатный"!.

    Здесь главную роль играет форма букв, а не то, все ли они соединены между собой или нет. В приведенных примерах большая часть букв - рукописная, хотя некоторые буквы написаны очень близко к печатным (я сама так делаю, например, при письме от руки заглавные "П" и "Р" у меня похожи на печатные, и я их не соединяю со следующей буквой).

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    Re: Cursive... Is it really that necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by strawberryfynch
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Quote Originally Posted by strawberryfynch
    I've never been jolly at cursive, even my English cursive- and then this Cyrillic cursive script.... wow .... Do I have to know how to do it? I've had a friend tell me that cursive isn't really used anymore... Is it the truth?
    Cursive was invented for fast handwriting. It's really faster than actually drawing letters. Of course, you can draw each letter and be understood by everybody. But, if you actually need a fastwriting skill in your baggage you have to master the handscript.
    Well, let's think of your motives. Imagine you can impress girls by handwriting them love letters in Russian

    And good Russian cursive looks very beautiful, much better than printed letters to my taste, and a sign of a great respect if I receive a handwritten letter instead of a printed one.
    I agree that it looks beautiful and is faster to write and that I can impress guys with a love letter in handwritten Russian... BUT IT'S SOOOOO HARD....
    I don't really think it's hard. It's a matter of practice and time. Children in schools are taught how to write by mechanical repetitions over and over again.
    If you would spend 30 mins for this daily for a month or two I'm sure you'll pick it up. Unfortunately I don't know any other methods that can help to master it faster. Your hand has to 'remember' it, not only your eyes.

    Here are some examples:


    Send me a PM if you need me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    People in English don't write in block capitals do they? .
    I do, but only if someone else has to read it. My cursive is faster, but only I can decipher it (and then it can take time).
    More madness than method but it works for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
    В русском языке "курсив" - название одной из разновидностей типографских шрифтов (italic).
    Да, именно.

    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
    Но когда человек пишет "рукописными" буквами, он не обязательно соединяет их! Это зависит от особенностей почерка и от скорости письма, но ведь текст от этого не превращается в "печатный"!
    Вопрос из теста (определение характера по почерку):

    6. Характер написания слов:

    1) склонность к соединению букв в слове

    2) смешанный стиль — и то, и другое

    3) склонность к отделению букв друг от друга
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    Re: Cursive... Is it really that necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Quote Originally Posted by strawberryfynch
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Quote Originally Posted by strawberryfynch
    I've never been jolly at cursive, even my English cursive- and then this Cyrillic cursive script.... wow .... Do I have to know how to do it? I've had a friend tell me that cursive isn't really used anymore... Is it the truth?
    Cursive was invented for fast handwriting. It's really faster than actually drawing letters. Of course, you can draw each letter and be understood by everybody. But, if you actually need a fastwriting skill in your baggage you have to master the handscript.
    Well, let's think of your motives. Imagine you can impress girls by handwriting them love letters in Russian

    And good Russian cursive looks very beautiful, much better than printed letters to my taste, and a sign of a great respect if I receive a handwritten letter instead of a printed one.
    I agree that it looks beautiful and is faster to write and that I can impress guys with a love letter in handwritten Russian... BUT IT'S SOOOOO HARD....
    I don't really think it's hard. It's a matter of practice and time. Children in schools are taught how to write by mechanical repetitions over and over again.
    If you would spend 30 mins for this daily for a month or two I'm sure you'll pick it up. Unfortunately I don't know any other methods that can help to master it faster. Your hand has to 'remember' it, not only your eyes.

    Here are some examples:


    Okay, I'll try to be patient and practice, practice, practice-

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    Учиться, учиться и ещё раз учиться — говаривал, в общем-то неглупый, Ленин.
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    Base it on your expected exposure to the language. How often will you be faced with hand written cursive Russian? Most likely never. But, it you plan to read with any degree of fluency you will run into printed cursive so I think that is important to know (and printed cursive is not that difficult to learn.)
    Кому - нары, кому - Канары.

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    We write so much in Russian class that my Cyrillic cursive is better than any way I write in English.

    Jeez, I've wanted to say that for so long my account got deactivated cuz I changed my email and I had trouble reactivating it.
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    yeah same here. i started learning cursive when i started learning russian and find it a lot easier to write than russian printed letters. printed letters, i find at least, are not as easy to join together or write quickly with.

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    If you think of it, the original alphabet was CAPITAL LETTERS ONLY. Not only Cyrillic, but our own too. The scribes, in order to write fast (remember how books used to be made!) took various liberties with the letters and gradually voila! - cursive.

    Think about A. Now imagine the scribe starts with /, then the \, and then the -. Well he shortens the left leg at the bottom, sort of rounds off at the top as he brings the downstroke, then left-upwards for the horizontal bar, and then without lifting the pen, sweeps it around counterclockwise to start the next letter. You end up with a. Similarly, the lower right-hand leg of the Cyrillic Д was originally a bit longer than the left-hand one, and you can easily see how we end up with a circle and a dropped stroke off the right side of it.

    Some particularly nice pages here:
    http://old-rus.narod.ru/pict/photo.htm
    And this one shows almost connected script:
    http://old-rus.narod.ru/pict/1_1_pic14.htm

    Connected handwriting didn't come about until the 1700s, when Peter brought education and writing out of the monastery. I don't have enough time to hunt down some secular handwriting, maybe someone here has smth they can post.

    Oh, and by the way,
    http://home.earthlink.net/~ko7dun/images/snovgod.gif

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