Thread: Beslan 3 Years

Originally Posted by Jamaica

I would not take the blame out on the Police if I was wounded as long as the terrorist was killed.

sure, the Police make mistakes, when under an extreme amount of presure like that (having over 1000 hastages, most of them young children) someone is going to die during the operation in order to save others. I think bashing Putin over Beslan is out of line. It was noted that the terrorists set off one of the bombs by accident, the Russian forces took action and if they did not take action agains the terrorists more hostages would have died.

I agree with all of that. Id rather be wounded during an attempt to free me then die at the hands of hostage takers.

Of course the police are only human, as is Putin and I would not wish to be the one having to make decisions in a crisis like this. But anyone who believes what happened was the only thing that could have happened is an unwilling student.
This siege ended in an uncontrolled mess, thats what happened. But it is possible that a better control on this situation, as far as was possible, may have ended it if not sooner, then certanly with at least a few less deaths.

Originally Posted by DDT

This is what I heard too. Then eyewitnesses say that the terrorists just started shooting at the kids when they ran away. What do these "protesters" think that the police should have done? These "protesters" make me sick. If I was Russian Police I would really give those protesters something to worry about.

Yes, the terrorists started shooting at everyone, the kids, civilians and police, we saw footage over here, not the worst of what happened but it was bad enough to feel sick to the stomach at what was happeneing.

As for what the police should have done. Not be there in the first place. Instead a highly trained and sophisticated unit who deales solely with these situations should have been sent in. I'm not saying the police were incompetent, I think they were heroes, very brave men. But they didnt have the training needed to be able to deal with this terrible situation. They did their best, but were unable to prevent the terrorists becoming spooked and a spooked terrorist is a killing machine. I dont know if the bomb went off accidentaly or deliberately, but it appears to have happened just after civilians attempted to rescue the hostages. The civilians, as brave as they were, should never have been that close to the building.

Again, I'm not anti anything nor a 'protester', but I am a realist who knows lessons can always be learned towards a better outcome for the next hostage situation.

in a situation like that, or any hostage situation for that matter, we cant even begin to imagine the stress put on these people. its not as simple as it seems while watching it on TV. there are also many factors we cant appreciate. no matter how well trained you are there will always be a chance of error and lives can always be lost. the majority was saved and the terrorists got what they had coming. im sure they reviewed the situation later and discussed other potential courses of action, as is standard. short of being a military tactician, ill hold back any advice on such matters

I'm not here to justify any of the actions of any of the parties in that horrible situation, but why is it that the taking and killing of hostages at a school is terrorism, but the wholesale bombing of the civilian population of Chechnya is not?

Is it in the least bit surprising that the some Chechens would pursue revenge?

Again, I'm not defending revenge, I'm just questioning some of the attitudes about this situation.

Originally Posted by paulb

I'm not here to justify any of the actions of any of the parties in that horrible situation, but why is it that the taking and killing of hostages at a school is terrorism, but the wholesale bombing of the civilian population of Chechnya is not?

It is counter-terrorism I am dead serious. Federal forces didn't carpet bomb any part of Chechnya. There were two cities that were heavily damaged by the artillery fire (Grozny and Gudermes) but there had been several ultimatums issued and all the civilians who wanted to leave had left before shelling begun.
The most heavily bombed areas were mountains where little or no civilian targets were present.

Is it in the least bit surprising that the some Chechens would pursue revenge?

Chechens are very much alike the Sicilians. Vendetta (blood feud) is a part of their historical heritage so there is little that can be done. If an older brother gets killed the remaining brother is OBLIGED to revenge. He may not want it himself but it's what he is expected to do.

Again, I'm not defending revenge, I'm just questioning some of the attitudes about this situation.

Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation. In 1991 some opportunists took control over it by military force and declared the so called independence from the Federal Government. Crimes of all kinds flourished there, and the Chechens themselves suffered the most. Chechnya became the southern terminal for drug traffic through Russia to Europe, there were abductions, murders and so on. During 1995-1996 some attempt was made to restore order and it failed. As a result the Khasavurt truce has been signed (it became possible only after Johar Dudayev, the Chechen leader had been effectively removed from the scene by a radar-guided missile) and Yeltsin withdrew the army from Chechnya, but terrorist attacks continued. In 1999 there were series of explosions, and later Dagestan (the neighbor republic) was INVADED by substantially large military contingent (several thousands armed men). It is unknown still how many Chechens had been killed there by the criminals during 1996-1999 since the government didn't control the situation there but there were many. And finally, in 1999 troops were sent to counter the invasion to Dagestan and to restore order in Chechnya. It wasn't the Russian government who had started this conflict but it had to put an end to this and succeeded. It was war and people die at war. But deliberate killing of children is not the act of war - it's a vile crime committed by people who didn't deserve the right to be called human and it cannot be justified. The terrorists' bodies were never given back to their families, they were buried in pig skins instead - a very suitable coffin for them.

Originally Posted by paulb

I'm not here to justify any of the actions of any of the parties in that horrible situation, but why is it that the taking and killing of hostages at a school is terrorism, but the wholesale bombing of the civilian population of Chechnya is not?

Is it in the least bit surprising that the some Chechens would pursue revenge?

Again, I'm not defending revenge, I'm just questioning some of the attitudes about this situation.

From your post I deduct that since you have not enough life experience and do not know how tell right from wrong, you therefore have decided everybody is wrong! You sound like a "fence sitter". Grow some balls and pick a side, man!

The terrorists' bodies were never given back to their families, they were buried in pig skins instead

A very nice "touch."

by your logic paulb, perhaps the Iraqis have a right to terrorist attacks on the US?? two wrongs dont make a right

Originally Posted by DDT

From your post I deduct that since you have not enough life experience and do not know how tell right from wrong, you therefore have decided everybody is wrong! You sound like a "fence sitter". Grow some balls and pick a side, man!

Believe it or not, DDTushka, but sometimes everybody is wrong! And it takes balls to see the that and not get fooled by one side.

For pure example, I am sure some Iraqi civilians don't like Al-Qaeda beheading their children just because they saw them smoke, and they probably don't appreciate having their weddings bombed by americans. For them it is easier to see that neither one is right...

Well Kinky ol Boy, there is always somebody who is "Wronger" !!!

Originally Posted by DDT

Well Kinky ol Boy, there is always somebody who is "Wronger" !!!

And that person happens to be you! :P