Thread: Anyone proud to have been a SOVIET?

Denying, what in Soviet times life was much better now is just *silly*. It's almost like denying the Nazi's crimes. The Yeltsin's regime looks almost like nazi-type regime for me: it almost succeeded where Hitler's invasion failed.

Everybody interested in how life and society was regressed after the so-called "democrats" came to power, must read "White Book of economic reform". (It can be downloaded as the set of ZIP-files from http://vif2ne.ru/nvz/forum/archive/67/67679.htm).

Even if you can't read russian, don't worry. Try looking at charts -- they're saying more than words.

But destruction of Soviet Union was a big tragedy no only for soviet peoples, but for the rest of the world as well. While Soviet Union was existing, the nations of the world had the only freedom what matters: freedom of choice. The world was bipolar, and had chances of becoming multipolar and stable. Now Bush's regime trying to create "unipolar world" (e.g. impose global american dictatorship without any opposition). It should be much worse, than Third Reich...

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

2CREATIVE, what do you mean by "to have been"? 99% of all the Soviet people are still very Soviet deep in their hearts. And of course are very proud to have lived in the USSR. And those few, that 1%, are considered the lowest life forms on earth.

I agree, VM is right.
My country and my love are the Soviet Union.
I still can not realize that the USSR is "former", for me the Soviet Union is my country.

Wow. I didn't expect that so many natives here are soviet-lovers.
My life is now far far better than then and my last name is not Abramovich or Berezovsky. I am not an oligarch, not even a businessman. And I am OK. What am I doing wrong? What should I do to miss the times when I had to share my watercloset with people who were completely alien to me? Was there an irresistible pleasure in hours-long standing in endless queues just to get some basic food? I still remember those green and tasteless bananas which were considered a delicacy...

Originally Posted by FL

My country and my love are the Soviet Union.
I still can not realize that the USSR is "former", for me the Soviet Union is my country.

Мой адрес не дом и не улица, мой адрес - Советский Союз?

Originally Posted by pisces

Originally Posted by FL

My country and my love are the Soviet Union.
I still can not realize that the USSR is "former", for me the Soviet Union is my country.

Мой адрес не дом и не улица, мой адрес - Советский Союз?

Именно так, меня пополам раскроило, и к какой-то одной части я пристать не могу.

Originally Posted by pisces

Wow. I didn't expect that so many natives here are soviet-lovers.
My life is now far far better than then and my last name is not Abramovich or Berezovsky. I am not an oligarch, not even a businessman. And I am OK. What am I doing wrong? What should I do to miss the times when I had to share my watercloset with people who were completely alien to me? Was there an irresistible pleasure in hours-long standing in endless queues just to get some basic food? I still remember those green and tasteless bananas which were considered a delicacy...

Evryone looks in the past through his own experience, not all people lived like you, you know номенклатура lived very well, and not only they, also many people who were close to power or to military industry, like my relatives.
In USSR i ate caviar every day and i even dont consider it to be a delicacy now, i had the best clothes and we never stood in lines, because we bought all products in speciall shops or my relatives got products and other stuff "по заказам". We had very good german furniture from DDR (we still have it), it was the most expensive i guees. Dacha was built for free by soldgers, we went to the Black sea every year and went to restaurants, cafes, bought what we wanted, we didnt think about money....This is my childhood, it s like a dream....wouldn't you like to return in such childhood? I dont know any other life in USSR, well, i am lucky.

But i am not proud to be soviet as i was a child and i didnt do anything to achieve all this prosperity, i am proud to be russian, and SOVIET is just unexisting and artificial nation.

extract from a song:

на крыше матюгальник голосит, как узбеков, латышей сплотила Русь....
Чиж и Ко

I agree that its wrong to impose a style of governing to people who don't want it, or live comfortably under their own. However, wasn't communism was forced onto the Nazi-liberated European states? It's like what we're doing to the Iraquis right now (Global Democracy). The spread of ideals, religion, government are bi-products of victory attained in war. And one could argue that it has been from the on-set of human history.

(those images of the red-army marching past the kremlin are burned into my memory. I look at them now and can't help but feel damn-impressed that the Soviets accomplished as much as they did in such a relatively short-amount of time. The world was a more interesting place when there were 2 Super-Powers...)

BTW, After the break-up of the soyuz, were the history books re-written again to reflect accurate historical accounts, or do they still say that Father-Stalin invented the light bulb?

Originally Posted by Fantomaks

You must remember Latvians saw it differently. After being occupied by the Nazis they were liberated by the Soviets. But the Soviets didn't leave so basically occupied them. It took most countries a long time to recognise the Baltic states as part of the Soviet Union.

And they were really the part of Soviet Union. And what? They were the part of the Russian Impire during 200 years and only 20 years independent. And they went into Soviet Union free in 1940.

The Soviet Republics were hardly free.

And yes what the Latvians have done since independance is bad. And it's not like Russians have ever done anything bad to Estonians is it?

And talking about the EU, don't be an impatient bastard. Latvia only joined a a year ago. Things take longer than that, moron. The EU has a strong Human Rights record and is being hard on the Latvian and Estonian governments. I have met the Estonian ambassador for Britain, and she said Estonia is under alot of pressure from the EU regarding it's treatment of Russians.

And all Russians living in Estonia can become Estonian citizens now. The Russians who have no citizenship have the oppurtunity, so simply either can't be bothered or have no desire to obtain it.

Originally Posted by 2CREATV

BTW, After the break-up of the soyuz, were the history books re-written again to reflect accurate historical accounts, or do they still say that Father-Stalin invented the light bulb?

Khrushchev denounced Stalin and his cult of personality in the 1960s.
Officially the Soviet Union didn't like Stalin from then. e.g. his body was removed from Lenin's mausoleom and statues of him were remove. But people even today still like and respect Stalin. Among other things Stalin made the USSR become a major world power and introduced rapid industrialisation and such.


Lenin is more widely respected I think though.

I had to write an essay comparing Stalin to Peter the Great.

So you should really have asked "or do they still say that Father-Lenin invented the light bulb?".

]BTW, After the break-up of the soyuz, were the history books re-written again to reflect accurate historical accounts, or do they still say that Father-Stalin invented the light bulb?

At no point did they say that "Father-Stalin" (as you cared to put it) invented the light bulb. Get some anti-propaganda shampoo.

P.S. What you might have heard about are the so-called "lampochki Ilyicha" - Lenin's lamps - a pet name the Soviet people gave to light bulbs. Not because Lenin "invented" them, but because the Bolsheviks had built many power plants supplying every Soviet person's home with electricity. You know what they say about little knowledge being a dangerous thing?

Sorry about the "Father-Stalin" crack; I'm surprised though, that there is indeed an increase of his popularity as of late. (My girlfriend's [ukrainian] grandparents are survivors of his great famine.) Many Russian-Jews I've spoken to liken him to Hitler.

I'm surprised though, that there is indeed an increase of his popularity as of late.

Nothing surprising. Seen from here it's only logical.

Originally Posted by 2CREATV

Sorry about the "Father-Stalin" crack;

No need to appologise, no one's been offended.

(My girlfriend's [ukrainian] grandparents are survivors of his great famine.

His great famine? How many times have we gone down this road? Somebody please explain to 2CREATV why Stalin cannot be held resonsible for Ukranian famines - I'm too tired tonight.

Many Russian-Jews I've spoken to liken him to Hitler.

Name one prominant political leader which has never been likened to Hitler by Russian-Jews? (Not that I'm against Jews - have too much Jewish blood in my veins to be an antisemite)

yes, please someone explain it to me. Vending Machine needs to recouperate from typing in frustration. I'll admit to my ignorance of Russian-Soviet Political History -- I am looking for information and points-of-view from people who lived in it. What's wrong with expressing curiosity in something your ignorant about? Why do I need to know that too tired to straighten out an opinion?

(maybe it's unfair to point figures at a country's leader when 7-10 million die of starvation because state policies?)

Originally Posted by TATY

Loads of Russians think life was better then. Especially old people. The Communist part came second in the last presidential elections (albeit with 15% or something).

Who thought it was better then? My parents grew up being supressed for beling religious. They were made fun of, teased, bullied all of their childhood years. They couldn't attend any university because of their faith. My grandfather sat in a russian prison for 10 years because he was religous.

Just imagine what religous russian boys had to go through in the communist armies?

Life was NOT easy.

Totally not cool.

Originally Posted by Welf

... people who were close to power or to military industry, like my relatives ...

Сразу вспоминается анекдот на эту тему:
Сын спрашивает у отца-полковника:
- Папа, а я когда вырасту, стану майором?
- Конечно, сынок.
- А подполковником?
- Обязательно.
- А полковником?
- И полковником станешь.
- А генералом я стану?
- Нет, генералом не станешь, у генерала свой сын есть.
(no offence, Welf )

Originally Posted by 2CREATV

yes, please someone explain it to me. Vending Machine needs to recouperate from typing in frustration. I'll admit to my ignorance of Russian-Soviet Political History -- I am looking for information and points-of-view from people who lived in it. What's wrong with expressing curiosity in something your ignorant about? Why do I need to know that too tired to straighten out an opinion?

(maybe it's unfair to point figures at a country's leader when 7-10 million die of starvation because state policies?)

If you wish to study it seriously (with links to documents etc) you can read those western scholars:

S. G. Wheatcroft
Mark B. Tauger

Originally Posted by 2CREATV

maybe it's unfair to point figures at a country's leader when 7-10 million die of starvation because state policies?)

I see you're yet another victim of your country's proper gander machine. Did they tell you that Ukraine had had regular famines for yonks before Stalin came to power and that that, in fact, was the last famine in the history of that country? So what does that actually say about Stalin and "state policies"? Eh?

Who thought it was better then? My parents grew up being supressed for beling religious. They were made fun of, teased, bullied all of their childhood years. They couldn't attend any university because of their faith. My grandfather sat in a russian prison for 10 years because he was religous.

Just imagine what religous russian boys had to go through in the communist armies?

Life was NOT easy.

Totally not cool.

That's a friggin fib me darling. Many of my friends and relatives have been religious throughout the USSR period. Religious people were never persecuted in the USSR or anything. True, religion wasn't encouraged (as it shouldn't be, because we're a secular society), but I remember people going to churches and celebrating all their religious holidays, etc.

Made fun of as children? You mean like boys and girls telling them "boga net"? But what do you expect in a secular society? And isn't suffering part of your faith anyway?
Some people who were overly religious wouldn't let their children go to school and that's when they would've been in deep smeggola with the authorities. But at any rate, people didn't get thrown to prison for going to church. I really hate telling you this, but I can only imagine your granddad being thrown to prison for being a layabout and refusing to work (tuneyadstvo), not for his religious believes. You know, when you're a total looser it's very easy to blame the regime, blame the gov't. That's what many artists (read 'wee tw@ts of the artyfarty variety') have done:
- Oh, I was persecuted by the Soviets, I couldn't get me books published.
- Hold on a second, maybe your books were crap, the editors didn't want to waste paper on you?
- No, how can you say that? I'm a great writer, me bukes were great, they expressed such brilliant ideas, but the commies didn't like them, blah-blah-blah.
- Hold on a second, but we have democracy now.
- Yes! [Has an orgasm]
- But where are your books today? How come you haven't published any of your great ones?
- Erm... ah....
- That's cos they're crap.

- Oh, I was persecuted by the Soviets, I couldn't get me books published.
- Hold on a second, maybe your books were cr@p, the editors didn't want to waste paper on you?
- No, how can you say that? I'm a great writer, me bukes were great, they expressed such brilliant ideas, but the commies didn't like them, blah-blah-blah.
- Hold on a second, but we have democracy now.
- Yes! [Has an orgasm]
- But where are your books today? How come you haven't published any of your great ones?
- Erm... ah....
- That's cos they're cr@p.

Politics aside this is a hilarious little conversation.

There has been and still is religious persecution in Russia. There is so much information available on this I won't even bother to post it. The Russian government decides which churches are acceptable and they must be registered. There are many complaints from churches who finally registered in order to stop the harrassment but say the harrassment continues.

You only have to ask the local Russian community in my area. If it was not for religious persecution in Russia most of them would not be now living here in the USA. They all miss their homeland and culture. They came here for their safety, not because they loved Big Macs.