Thread: Anyone proud to have been a SOVIET?

I have no problem with Russia protecting it's citizens from those "religions " that harrass and torment people by chasing them down the street and knocking on their doors trying to push unwanted literature and conversion tactics. It's bad enough that I have to put up with this in America but I completely lost it when some heretic was chasing me in Moscow trying to "save" me. He wouldn't leave me alone until I started screaming at him to get away from me .He's lucky I didn't push him in a snowdrift and toss his stupid pamphlets in the street!

Originally Posted by mike

It is hard to take some of the "oppression" stuff seriously from religious organizations. It seems rather mandatory that if you are an organized religion you must suffer from a mostly imagined persecution complex. Take for example someone like David Limbaugh who draws a parallel between the absence of the ten commandments from the post office and teaching evolution in school with being fed to the lions in ancient Rome.

Note that I said "mostly imagined." I actively persecute religious people on a daily basis. I had a gulag built out of chicken wire in the backyard of my co-op, but since the land is communally owned by all of the units and permanent fixtures are prohibited I had to move them into the basement (note to lawyers: I keep them "free range" in accordance with FDA laws on proper care of livestock). Yeah, I know I'm supposed to sit here and be diplomatic and not use profane language and all that BS, but come on: if you give any more credibility to Abraham and Isaac than you do to something out of The Odyssey, you're a @@@@ idiot.

Here we go again. Do you really believe that there are no religions that exist today that are being harassed and tormented? Persecution can come in many forms - religions, racial, sexist, etc. Whether or not you believe in a religion is of no matter to me, I was merely defending several groups of people (which I have met PERSONALLY), and I would certainly say that those persons which have a faith in something, generally have a more pleasant personality than those who don't, but since people who read these posts don't like for you to generalize, then I will put it this way - It is my opinion that they are very nice people and have certainly met opposition due to their beliefs.

If those people feel persecuted where they currently live they should either move somewhere else or stop the behavior that is illegal or offensive to others.

Originally Posted by pisces

As far as medicine is concerned, yes, it was free, but low quality. ...(it was in 1985, I was 4 y.o.)...

You think that there was a low quality medcine in the USSR... I assure you that if there was low quality medcine now we just have no medcine. I'm 32 and I saw a little bit more then than you.

I'll bet you have more available medecine in Russian that I do here in usa. I, like many here have no way to pay for medical treatmeant.

It seems, like when people in this thread start to defend old soviet times, the anti-soviets here start to suspect them in some personal motives. Well, I have absolutely no motives to like USSR (as well as to hate) so I think I'm objective. Well, if you're really curious about me, I:

- was born in 1970, in Moscow, in totally non-elitary family (neither father nor mother were members of CPSU, not to mention "nomenclature");
- was living (with parents and older brother) in absolutely standart 3-room appartment in 9-storey white panel building (BTW, it's still standing there);
- since 4 years was visiting the absolutely standart soviet kindergarten (the 2-storey red brick building shaped as letter "Ш"... I hope this tells something). Didn't like it much, of course.
- since 8 years was learning in the school (again, absolutely standart one). Didn't like it either (generally I liked to learn, but detested some lessons and some of the classmates too );
- two times went on summer vacations to Baltic (to Yurmala and to Palanga, if I remember right).
- somewhere till 10-11 years was sure I'm living in the best country on the Earth. Then, some doubts became to bother me...
- later started to feel quite anti-soviet, and began to read all anti-soviet literature which sometimes appeared in our rather dissident family (I remember reading xeroxed and hand-bound versions of Nabokov's "Приглашение на казнь", Bulgakov's "Собачье сердце" and Orwell's "1984").
- welcomed the Gorbachev's came to power (as well as dad and mom). He was so young (by normal Politbureau standarts ), there were so many great prospects: "perestroika", "uskorenye", "new though", etc...

Well, I can remember lots of other things, but let's stop here.
So: I'm interested in your opinion: do I have some reason to like USSR or hate it? Is there anything personal in my attitute to it?

i dont understand what your ultimate impression is. you said you started to feel anti-soviet (because of anti-soviet literature?) and then you welcomed Gorbachev's *presidency* and the changes that followed... so, are you claiming that he made life 'less-Soviet-like'? In which case you then liked the USSR, or because things became 'less-Soviet', this somehow reinforced your anti-Soviet disposition, making you dislike the USSR?

Perhaps the bottom line here is that there is no absolute feeling of like or dislike [for the USSR] among ex-Soviets. I looks like everyone has had bi-polar experiences with the major facets of life (living standards, money, religion, healthcare, popular identity.) Having just seen some news footage of the WWII commemorative events held in Moscow, I can't help but feel sad that the USSR, as it was, doesn't exist anymore -- nostalgia i guess.

Originally Posted by 2CREATV

i dont understand what your ultimate impression is. you said you started to feel anti-soviet (because of anti-soviet literature?) and then you welcomed Gorbachev's *presidency* and the changes that followed... so, are you claiming that he made life 'less-Soviet-like'? In which case you then liked the USSR, or because things became 'less-Soviet', this somehow reinforced your anti-Soviet disposition, making you dislike the USSR?

Yes, the Gorbachev made life much "less-Soviet-like". But it lead to disasterous results. This is the problem. Many people, who supported Gorbachev, now are very remorseful they did.

Originally Posted by 2CREATV

Perhaps the bottom line here is that there is no absolute feeling of like or dislike [for the USSR] among ex-Soviets. I looks like everyone has had bi-polar experiences with the major facets of life (living standards, money, religion, healthcare, popular identity.) Having just seen some news footage of the WWII commemorative events held in Moscow, I can't help but feel sad that the USSR, as it was, doesn't exist anymore -- nostalgia i guess.

Agreed.

I don't think it is black or white, love or hate...

Everybody has nostalgia of the past, and one usually remembers the good things about it. Especially people remember times they never lived in with pride. Many Russians I spoke to miss the Tsar times after watching movies like "the barberer of Siberia" "war and peace" and so forth. Yes brutal people at the head of government, but when it doesn't effect you or your family in a bad way, why would you hate it?

I am proud of my Viking heritage, but they were really a bunch of pillagers, rapists, murderes, and very rude to elderly women.

Aren't the americans here proud of their heritage too? Can you say that the american colonists were nice people who only gave flowers to the native americans?

You can't identify the whole Soviet 74 year period with Stalin.

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Many Russians I spoke to miss the Tsar times after watching movies like "the barberer of Siberia" "war and peace" and so forth.

Miss the Tsart times? You've got to be kidding. Are your friends 100 years old? How can anyone miss something one has never experienced?

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

I am proud of my Viking heritage, but they were really a bunch of pillagers, rapists, murderes, and very rude to elderly women.

Interesting. But did they ever do anything bad?

> Free Russian people: free from job,

I have a job, though I'm just a student. Moreover, that's not McJob - I work as a programmer.

> free from free medical aid,

Hmm, when my granny talks about her (i'm not sure about words) false teeth, which were made for free, my mom usually reminds her about the money, which were given to the doctor... And the best proof of the necesserity of that action is that these teeth are still OK.

> free from sovereignty,

Hmm... Isn't Russia sovereign? Or you suppose we are occupied by Big Evil America or by всемирный жидомасонский заговор?

> free from good education,

Well, I've graduated not from usual school, but from a lyceum (state one - it was free, but there were entering exams there), to which I've entered at the 8th form...

Have you read Gomer's Iliada & Odisseya in school? Have you learned Petrarka or Dante by heart? Do you know who Anakreont or Sapfo were? Can you recite "exigi monumentum" or "to be or not to be" just now? Have you ever discussed in the classroom is Skarlett O'Hara good or bad character? Have you studied japanese in school?

No?

And I did.

If that was a bad education, I don't uderstand the life.

Please think before you write.

Originally Posted by Astaroth

Have you read Gomer's Iliada & Odisseya in school? Have you learned Petrarka or Dante by heart? Do you know who Anakreont or Sapfo were? Can you recite "exigi monumentum" or "to be or not to be" just now? Have you ever discussed in the classroom is Skarlett O'Hara good or bad character? Have you studied japanese in school?

No?

And I did.

If that was a bad education, I don't uderstand the life.

I don't see how learning random facts and dubious skills can be called "good education". Btw, it's Homer, not Gomer. (so you didn't do Greek then, did ya?)

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

I don't see how learning random facts and dubious skills can be called "good education".

Well, if you think that was "learning random facts and dubious skills", I'm not sure I'll be able to make you change your mind.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Btw, it's Homer, not Gomer. (so you didn't do Greek then, did ya?)

Neither modern, nor ancient. We had enough things to study.

Originally Posted by Astaroth

> Free Russian people: free from job,

I have a job, though I'm just a student. Moreover, that's not McJob - I work as a programmer.

> free from free medical aid,

Hmm, when my granny talks about her (i'm not sure about words) false teeth, which were made for free, my mom usually reminds her about the money, which were given to the doctor... And the best proof of the necesserity of that action is that these teeth are still OK.

> free from sovereignty,

Hmm... Isn't Russia sovereign? Or you suppose we are occupied by Big Evil America or by всемирный жидомасонский заговор?

> free from good education,

Well, I've graduated not from usual school, but from a lyceum (state one - it was free, but there were entering exams there), to which I've entered at the 8th form...

Have you read Gomer's Iliada & Odisseya in school? Have you learned Petrarka or Dante by heart? Do you know who Anakreont or Sapfo were? Can you recite "exigi monumentum" or "to be or not to be" just now? Have you ever discussed in the classroom is Skarlett O'Hara good or bad character? Have you studied japanese in school?

No?

And I did.

If that was a bad education, I don't uderstand the life.

Please think before you write.

Hey Astaroth,

Could you please summarize your point?

My parents used to tell me that learning Latin was a good thing.... well I seriously doubt that... I wish I had learned Russian instead

I think we should learn usefull things, like learning to play music which is actually usefull for seducing and charming women

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Many Russians I spoke to miss the Tsar times after watching movies like "the barberer of Siberia" "war and peace" and so forth.

Miss the Tsart times? You've got to be kidding. Are your friends 100 years old? How can anyone miss something one has never experienced?

Miss meaning that they wished they lived in those times. Of course they have a highly unrealstic perception of the times. Just like the Russian young communists who were maybe 4 years old when the soviet went belly up.

Originally Posted by Astaroth

Have you read Gomer's Iliada & Odisseya in school? Have you learned Petrarka or Dante by heart? Do you know who Anakreont or Sapfo were? Can you recite "exigi monumentum" or "to be or not to be" just now? Have you ever discussed in the classroom is Skarlett O'Hara good or bad character? Have you studied japanese in school?

Actually nothing of the above draws a line between good education and bad one. The main goal of good school education is to teach student how to teach himself. From this point of view, I consider my education good.

Look, you studied Homer, I studied quantum mechanics in lyceum, but our jobs aren't connected to any of two.

The main goal of good school education is to teach student how to teach himself.

I agree.