Thread: Please check my translation of this proverb about Virginity.

В доме -- девушка, и в доме Божым -- девственница, в магазине же -- девчонка.

A girl at home, a virgin in the house of God, but a slut in the workplace.

Originally Posted by Martin Miles

В доме -- девушка, и в доме Божым -- девственница, в магазине же -- девчонка.
A girl at home, a virgin in the house of God, but a slut in the workplace.

Дома -- девушка, в доме Божьем -- девственница, на работе же -- распутница
"В доме" = inside the house / the building, thus "в доме Божьем", but "дома".

"Девчонка" means just a little girl or may be a merry girl, but have no negative meaning and surely it cannot be translated as "slut". Ok maybe in some cases when speaker use this word as some kind of euphemism, it can; but since the word "slut" were used in original text you should use equally straight word in translation. I think so.
Secondly, why "workplace" became "магазин"? IIRC it means just what it spelled like - the place of work.
Usually I am not interested in politicalcorrectness and such things, but I must say that this proverb seems a bit sexist to me. May be I misunderstood it? Lingvo says that "slut" can be "неряха, грязнуля", may be this is it?

P.S. Where do you get all those err... strange proverbs?

Thanks for your corrections, Defensor; I think I will go for the following version of the proverb (original):

Дома -- девушка, и в доме Божьем -- девственница, в магазине же -- девчонка.

Literal translation: At home, a girl; in church, a virgin; but at work, a naughty girl.

Idiomatic translation: Prostitution is big business, and big business is prostitution.

I prefer devchonka to rasputnitsa because of the alliteration, the sound of the proverb is important, not only the sense; furthermore, the three words meaning 'girl' all have the same root.
Thanks for explaining about the eupemism, I find that dictionaries often give official definitions, but you have to talk to a native speaker to appreciate the full sense of the word.
And I will stick with magazin because a shop is somewhere where something, anything is sold, so when you combine a place where something is sold with a merry girl, it strengthens the sense of the proverb.

Originally Posted by Martin Miles

I think I will go for the following version of the proverb (original):

Дома -- девушка, и в доме Божьем -- девственница, в магазине же -- девчонка.

Literal translation: At home, a girl; in church, a virgin; but at work, a naughty girl.

Idiomatic translation: Prostitution is big business, and big business is prostitution.

So you say that the Russian version is the original one? Where did you find it? I've never heard it (and if you just invented it, you can hardly call it a proverb). And LD is absolutely right in saying that "девчонка" cannot be translated as "slut" or "prostitute". Maybe you meant "девка"?

Maybe you meant "девка"?

Exactly! I think this is the word.
Let's try to add some adjectives. It will help to make more exact meaning while using words we need to keep alliteration:

Дома - милая девушка, в доме Божьем - невинная дева, в магазине (may be even в лавке?) - продажная девка.

"Дева" is slightly archaic and pompous but in our proverb next to "дом Божий" it fits well. We don't use the word "девственница" in everyday life, it sounds too formal. It's just "девушка" usually. But "Innocent maid" is more corresponding with the style of the proverb.
"Девушка" has many meanings in Russian. Actually, every female person in the age from 14 to 40 may be called "девушка" regardless of her marita status. So we have to add such homely epithet as "sweet".
And finally, the word "продажная" describes the girl as dissolute and at the same moment is a bit related to the shop.
P.S. And once again: "и" is absolutely unnecessery here.

Well, the Anglo-Soviet dictionary of c. 1940 translates devchonka precisely as slut, but probably times and attitudes have changed. Is there anyway of distinguishing between a girl and a virgin in the Russian language of 2010?

Originally Posted by Martin Miles

Well, the Anglo-Soviet dictionary of c. 1940 translates devchonka precisely as slut, but probably times and attitudes have changed.

Probably that's right though I can't actually recall using this word in that meaning in ald movies or books. However there was not so many "sluts" in the literature or movies in those days
Here is the popular song from 60s:
Придут девчонки, стоят в сторонке, платочки в руках теребя
Потому что на десять девчонок по статистике девять ребят.
There is nothing naughty about these lyrics.

Originally Posted by Martin Miles

Is there anyway of distinguishing between a girl and a virgin in the Russian language of 2010?

I'd say that today we don't pay so much attention to the "virgin" thing. So we don't usually use special words for it. "Virgin" is often referenced to as "still a girl" (еще девушка) and I think it's a bit funny

Originally Posted by Martin Miles

Well, the Anglo-Soviet dictionary

What's the insane name! There was never such thing as "soviet language" so it can not have dictionaries.

of c. 1940 translates devchonka precisely as slut, but probably times and attitudes have changed.

No, it is impossible ever. You got a very strange book.

Is there anyway of distinguishing between a girl and a virgin in the Russian language of 2010?

There is "девственница" (virgin), but it's style is medical and physiological rather than romantic or religious. Also in colloquial speech "девочка" (little girl) can be used as a synonymous of virgin. девушка (girl) nowadays has also sense of virgin, but this sense is marginal.

I'll post a picture of the dictionary for you, it-ogo; I know you like to look at pictures.