Thread: Autism issues in Russia

As an autistic American, I am curious to know how people in Russia treat autistics/view autism in general.

I know it's kind of an open ended question......

Here there is a very vocal autistic rights movement........

I'll explain later if anyone is interested.

AIS

Hello,
I hardly know much about autistic people but mostly from the touching movies dedicated to people of this kind (like Rain man), I also know about some autistic people who, although incapable in their everyday life, have simply an outstanding way of thinkng and viewing this world. Like Stephen Wiltshire, whose abilities in drawing are just fabulous.

I thought the autistic people scarcely could be involved in such a social activity as this forum, any forum actually. Because you were ...autistic. But it must be a wrong stereotiype. Though another stereotype is that autistic people are kind, as well that people who wear glasses are clever and kind.

I myself have never in my life met an autistic person, but I dare to think I would like to converse with one if I met'em in the street and had been involved into a conversation.


I always was rather in friendly curiocity towards the people with phsychological differences. Not the dangerous ones though.

In general I look at autism like at any other countless distinctions which characterize all of us.
There is no normality above all and every one is different in his own way.

edited: TYforYH W.!

I cannot speak for Russia - except to say that I like Leof's philosophy!

Has anyone else read A Personal Matter (Личный Опыт) by Kenzaburo Oe? I read it last year - a deeply disturbing but rewarding book about a father trying hard to deny and reject his infant son, because his son is brain-damaged. The book is partially autobiographical,and there is an undercurrent of the horror of nuclear war.

Oe's son Hikari is profoundly autistic, and Kenzaburo Oe has dedicated his life to both ascertaining that his son has the best possible quality of life, and to raising public awareness about autism. In his spare time, he won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1994 for his literary works.

Here is an article, in Russian, on Hikari Oe: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A5%D0% ... 0%9E%D1%8D

Here's a sample of his music, set to pictures of Florence, Italy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnpyei7fvG4&translated=1

Here, one part of a series on Kenzaburo Oe, in French. Perhaps it has been translated into Russian, and I just can't find it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EwOtDYO ... re=related

Originally Posted by Leof

I thought the autistic people scarsely could be involved in such a social activity as this forum, any forum actually. .

there are degrees of autism, from severe to more mild.

Originally Posted by sperk

there are degrees of autism, from severe to more mild.

Well......that's true.......to an extent. It's hard to explain what I mean.......why do we think of certain characteristics like odd social mannerisms but high intelligence as "milder autism" but inability to speak or feed oneself or toilet without assistance......irrespective of actual intelligence.......as "severe autism"?

I have not found a satisfactory answer to this and related questions from ANYONE who is not autistic.......that doesn't mean everyone is stupid, it just means that more work needs to be done on this subject......

after all, we cannot possibly test the intelligence of a person who cannot speak, if we are using testing methods which depend on the ability to speak! It's like comparing apples and oranges.....or trying to make a cat become a dog......or something like that

Very interesting responses so far though.

Leof: many autistics have much more success in social forums on the internet, because there aren't too many external distractions like facial expressions, tone of voice, eye contact, and stuff like that.

Athena

Athena,

Welcome to MR and thank you for sharing your information with us and educating all of us!

Your last posting sparked some thoughts for me...

Originally Posted by AthenIvanIdx

many autistics have much more success in social forums on the internet, because there aren't too many external distractions like facial expressions, tone of voice, eye contact, and stuff like that.Athena

Your statement is true of not only people with autism; but, people with many social phobias or communication issues in general. When one types behind a screen and in the comfort of their own home, one never needs to worry about the way they look or sound. No one will make fun of them if they have a speech impediment or look at them oddly if they have a facial or other deformity. No one will ever know if they are skinny, fat, short, tall, have a really big pimple on their nose today or a host of other things that society judges us on and we in turn judge ourselves even more harshly. One has time to think about what they are typing and can always stop, come back to it or just delete entirely and not send at all. There is a built in security blanket.

Additonally, I wonder if people with Tourette syndrome also find it easier to communicate via social forums and the internet? Until you had raised this, I had not even thought about this. During elementary school, my younger daughter had a classmate with Tourette. While they no longer attend the same school, every once in a while he tries to keep in touch with her via cell and has great difficulties in doing so. He can only say a few words and then hangs up. He even has tried having someone else call for him. I wonder if he tried to email with her if it would be easier for him?

We don't use this word "autism" in Russia, we say:" немногословен, не очень общительный". We are not ignorant of autism but we think that if one is not very communicative it is his right, not his problem.

Originally Posted by studyr

We don't use this word "autism" in Russia, we say:" немногословен, не очень общительный". We are not ignorant of autism but we think that if one is not very communicative it is his right, not his problem.

А я думал, это про аутистов - людей с выявленным синдромом аутизма. Я много раз слышал, как слова "аутист" и "аутизм" относят к людям с очевидными проблемами в общении, расстройством психики. Скажем, человек, уткнувшийся в стену и не говорящий нb слова долгие годы, это не не очень общительный человек, это человек с синдромом. Малообщительность, замкнутость, угрюмость, по-моему, вовсе не предполагают аутизма.

Таких людей зовут аутистами условно, как людей нервных или возбуждённых зовут иногда "шизиками" или маниаками, хоть они вовсе и не они вовсе.

Я бы сказал, что we use the word autism in Russia for autistic people. And we call people who don't like to talk - people who don't like to talk.

Originally Posted by AthenIvanIdx

why do we think of certain characteristics like odd social mannerisms but high intelligence as "milder autism" but inability to speak or feed oneself or toilet without assistance......irrespective of actual intelligence.......as "severe autism"? [...] after all, we cannot possibly test the intelligence of a person who cannot speak, if we are using testing methods which depend on the ability to speak!

I agree. That is not all that straightforward though. I think it's reasonably safe to assume that most of today's human practical decisions are based on their experience. Suppose our Sun is super-intelligent, would we know the difference? Yes, if we have a means of perceiving that, and no otherwise. If the Internet is the primary means for someone to plug into "the Collective", so be it! I'm pretty sure some couple of tens of thousands years ago someone's intelligence was of no importance as long as they could help to kill a mammoth. Nowdays, it's the opposite. So, basically you can't really blame a society in general of trying to assign a "severity" degree on autism. That notion was just introduced for convenience to evaluate the integration level [into the society] - and nothing else, really. I think the impaired communication is an issue for both the individual and the society. Both would suffer, albeit not equally. I reckon, as soon as we have additional means of exchanging thoughts and influence behavior, the situation might change.

Having said that, I can't really tell anything about the way autism is perceived in Russia except for "it is perceived very individually" which I think it true for almost any place in the world.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Athena,

Additonally, I wonder if people with Tourette syndrome also find it easier to communicate via social forums and the internet? Until you had raised this, I had not even thought about this. During elementary school, my younger daughter had a classmate with Tourette. While they no longer attend the same school, every once in a while he tries to keep in touch with her via cell and has great difficulties in doing so. He can only say a few words and then hangs up. He even has tried having someone else call for him. I wonder if he tried to email with her if it would be easier for him?

There's a good chance that email would be much easier for him. Maybe he's afraid of her hearing a lot of his verbal tics at once.........this is only a conjecture; I don't know the young man or your daughter.......

But yeah, people with Tourette's can have similar social anxieties like autistics do.........

and thanks for the warm welcome, rockzmom.

Athena

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Originally Posted by AthenIvanIdx

why do we think of certain characteristics like odd social mannerisms but high intelligence as "milder autism" but inability to speak or feed oneself or toilet without assistance......irrespective of actual intelligence.......as "severe autism"? [...] after all, we cannot possibly test the intelligence of a person who cannot speak, if we are using testing methods which depend on the ability to speak!

I agree. That is not all that straightforward though. I think it's reasonably safe to assume that most of today's human practical decisions are based on their experience. Suppose our Sun is super-intelligent, would we know the difference? Yes, if we have a means of perceiving that, and no otherwise. If the Internet is the primary means for someone to plug into "the Collective", so be it! I'm pretty sure some couple of tens of thousands years ago someone's intelligence was of no importance as long as they could help to kill a mammoth. Nowdays, it's the opposite. So, basically you can't really blame a society in general of trying to assign a "severity" degree on autism. That notion was just introduced for convenience to evaluate the integration level [into the society] - and nothing else, really. I think the impaired communication is an issue for both the individual and the society. Both would suffer, albeit not equally. I reckon, as soon as we have additional means of exchanging thoughts and influence behavior, the situation might change.

Having said that, I can't really tell anything about the way autism is perceived in Russia except for "it is perceived very individually" which I think it true for almost any place in the world.

Well.......many autistics would probably not think they are suffering.......except from the social anxiety, sensory overload, etc. We do not suffer because we're autistic (there is an autistic rights movement with a big presence online.........but not EVERY autistic thinks this way)........we "suffer" because the society we live in is not designed to acommodate many of our issues.......

About convenience, you are right.........but what is convenient is not always right, or true, or valid, or whatever.

Since I myself am autistic it's rather difficult to explain in words what I want to say........

Athena

Originally Posted by AthenIvanIdx

we "suffer" because the society we live in is not designed to acommodate many of our issues

Exactly!

I had seen autistics who become as communicative after second glass of vodka as to make a corpse wanting to get rid of them.

Originally Posted by studyr

I had seen autistics who become as communicative after second glass of vodka as to make a corpse wanting to get rid of them.

Hahahaha!

"had seen" is correct IF you're referring to something that was happening in the past, but not anymore.

"have seen" is correct if you're referring to something that started in the past but is still happening. I can't tell which it is from context here.......not picking on you, just giving you something to think about in the future. If you knew that already, sorry for repeating something.

And yes, alcohol does wonders for social anxiety......

Athena

I am also autistic. I am new on this board. I just started learning Russian a few days ago. I was diagnosed at 5 years old, 21 years ago. I don't know if you are aware, but there is an awesome autism forum online. I am a part of that as well. Go to www.wrongplanet.net to join. There are thousands of members there. I didn't start speaking until I was 7 years old. Now I talk 24 hours a day!! I don't know anything about autism in Russia. It sounds like you either have high functioning autism (like me) or Asperger's Syndrome (which is like high functioning autism but without the speech delay).

FireBird, welcome!

Thank you!!

По моему все автистик. Это человеческий характер. Некоторые интроверти, а некоторые экстроверти. У всех есть другие степени. Все равно если человек живёт в России но в Америке. (Мне надо помочь с русскым языком!!). С приветом!

Originally Posted by Mypka

С приветом!

После вышесказанного точнее я вряд ли бы выразился.(joke) "С приветом!" means "abnormal" in Russian.