Thread: Difficulties of translating. English / Russian

songs and not only ones

Everyone of us have done mistakes in translation. Reason of them is conditioned by difference of grammar rules. For example, Russian can be misled in English article, because we have not them in Russian at all. English native speakers are confused by Russian rules for verbs and using of case.

But if we look at it more attentively we will notice that our mistakes very often are typically. I guess that these typically errors were found by you or authors of textbooks before. So, please, let change our own experience like that. Maybe you can give us some links for interesting publications or books about this theme.

To make our efforts of learning language more attractive, we can discuss here translate of modern songs (but not only this). I know it is very creatively process. Probably somebody of us will become to a poet. Anyway we will meet a lot of idioms and reference to national literature, traditional and proverbs.

There are many English and Russian native speakers here, and we could help one another. So take our textbooks and dictionaries for help. Translate, discuss, listen, learn.
Lets begin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXANpfmiWVw

Most difficult expression was marked by me in green
Moscow never sleeps

Moscow never sleeps.
Moscow never sleeps.
Я люблю тебя, Москва!
Люблю тебя.
Moscow never sleeps.
Я люблю тебя, Москва!
Люблю тебя.

А есть ли любовь?!
Возьми мое сердце,
Коснись меня взглядом,
Почувствуй тепло
И будь со мной рядом.
Не бойся любить
И разбей все преграды,
Ведь я, все быть может,
Люблю тебя тоже.

Я люблю тебя, Москва!
Люблю тебя.
Moscow never sleeps.

А есть ли любовь?!
Возьми мое сердце,
Коснись меня взглядом.
Ведь я, все быть может,
Люблю тебя тоже.

Возьми мое сердце,
Коснись меня взглядом,
Почувствуй тепло
И будь со мной рядом.
Не бойся любить
И разбей все преграды,
Ведь я, все быть может,
Люблю тебя тоже.

А есть ли любовь?!

Возьми мое сердце,
Коснись меня взглядом,
Почувствуй тепло
И будь со мной рядом.
Не бойся любить
И разбей все преграды,
Ведь я, все быть может,
Люблю тебя тоже.

Я люблю тебя Москва!
Люблю тебя.
Moscow never sleeps
Я люблю тебя Москва!
Люблю тебя.
Moscow never sleeps

English translation
Moscow never sleeps

Moscow never sleeps.
Moscow never sleeps.
I love you, Moscow!
I love you.
Moscow never sleeps.
I love you, Moscow!
I love you.

Would the Love exist?!
Take my heart,
Touch on me with your sight,
Feel the warm
And be near me.
Don’t be afraid of be loving
And break the all obstacles,
Everything may be,
Maybe I love you too.

I love you, Moscow!
I love you.
Moscow never sleeps.
Does the Love exist?
Take my heart,
Touch on me with your sight,
Everything may be,
Maybe I love you too.

Take my heart,
Touch on me with your sight,
Feel the warm
And be near me.
Don’t be afraid of be loving
And break the all obstacles,
Everything may be,
Maybe I love you too.

Would the Love exist?!

Take my heart,
Touch on me with your sight,
Feel the warm
And be near me.
Don’t be afraid of be loving
And break the all obstacles,
Everything may be,
Maybe I love you too.

I love you, Moscow!
I love you.
Moscow never sleeps.
I love you, Moscow!
I love you.
I love you, Moscow!

__________________________________________________ ____________________

and in addition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PuJgxTuTxE

Между мной и тобой

Сколько нам с тобой теперь осталось?
Лишь малость.
И живет со мной святая жалость – моя усталость.
Между мной и тобой остается ветер.
Между мной и тобой только слово: «Где ты?».

Нет моей вины, что тобой болею,
Седею.
Ты придешь ко мне, я тебя согрею,
Жалею.

Между мной и тобой остается ветер.
Между мной и тобой только слово: «Где ты?».
Между мной и тобой остается ветер.
Между мной и тобой только слово: «Где ты?».

Но снедает нас моя дорога – тревога.
Расстояние в жизнь – это так много,
Долго.
Между мной и тобой остается ветер.
Между мной и тобой только слово: «Где ты?».
«Где ты», – я спрошу,
Может, кто ответит.
Между мной и тобой остается ветер.

Ветер.
Где ты?
Может , кто ответит.
Где ты?

in English

Between me and you

How much time are we having for the future?/How much time will we have spent together?
Only a little.
And the saint pity as my tiredness are living inside me.
The wind is staying between me and you.
There is the word, “Where are you?”

It’s not my fair, that I am ached by you,
that I turned gray.
You will come to me, I will give you the warm heart.
I regret.

The wind is staying between me and you.
There is the word, “Where are you?”
The wind is staying between me and you.
There is the word, “Where are you?”

But my life choice is an anxiety is exhausted us.
The distant like a whole life, it is so much,
So long.
The wind is staying between me and you.
There is the word, “Where are you?”
“Where are you?”- I will ask.
Maybe somebody will reply to…
The wind is staying between me and you.

Wind.
Where are you?
Maybe somebody will reply to….
Where are you?
__________________________________________
Some translations were done already
http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...p?f=57&t=18959
http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...hp?f=2&t=16684
http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...hp?f=2&t=16668
http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...hp?f=2&t=16328

"Feel the worm" is my favorite!

I want to play, too!

OK, I've been learning Russian for eight months only and English isn't my native language either, but here goes. I mentioned this song in Rockzmom's thread and linked to the video on Youtube.

Слот - Мёртвые звёзды

Я сам себе придумал путь,
Расставил маяки
Иду по узкой пустыне
Один в толпе людской
И всё пытаюсь обмануть
Течение быстрой реки
Пока мой след не простынет,
Не ходи за мной

Ты идёшь по воде
Зная как, зная где
А я следом по дну
Я тону

[Послушай]
Остановись, пока не поздно
Я падаю вниз за тобой
Туда, где светят твои мёртвые звёзды,
Ослепляя солнце пустотой

Я распугал давно друзей,
Но мой спокоен взгляд
Свободный волк-одиночка
К законам спиной
Мне надо сдать себя в музей
И жить там как экспонат
Всё, я сказал и точка -
Не ходи за мной

Сделать наоборот,
Подобрать к тебе код,
Отключить от сети
Не уйти

Dead Stars

I devised a path for myself
Lined it with beacons
Walking through a narrow desert
Alone in a pulk of people
And everything tries to change the course
Of the quick river
While my tracks do not grow cold
Do not follow me

You are walking on water
Knowing how, knowing where
And I am sinking immediately
To the ground

Listen!
Stop before it is too late
I am sinking down behind you
To where your dead stars shine
Eclipsing the sun with their void

I chased away my friends long ago
But placid is my gaze
A free lone wolf
with his back towards the law
I should put myself in a museum
And live there as an exhibit
That's all, I say, no more -
Don't follow me

Undo it
Break your code
Unhook you from the net
No leaving




Of course, there might be errors in there, so feel free to post corrections. BTW, in case you're wondering, the lyrics are from the album version, the video version only has a repetition of 'за тобой' (behind you) in place of the two stanzas beginning with 'you are walking on water' and 'undo it' respectively.

Robin

Originally Posted by MikeM

"Feel the worm" is my favorite!

and mine too
Even like this way we can learn new foreign words. It is very useful word in technical translations.
Змеевик. Может быть частью охлаждающей системы.

Originally Posted by bitpicker

Слот - Мёртвые звёзды

Dead Stars

I devised a path for myself
Lined it with beacons
Walking through a narrow desert

Alone in a pulk of people
And everything tries to change the course
Of the quick river
While my tracks do not grow cold

(I think the word “everything” must not be in your translation. In Russian this sentence means that
He tries to go against the stream. He is doing it now and did it before now but the stream is stronger and faster. He can not change anything in this circumstances.
It may be like this

I still try to change
The stream of quick river
While my tracks do not grow cold

or

I has been trying to change
The stream of quick river
While my tracks do not grow cold.)

Do not follow me

You are walking on water
Knowing how, knowing where
And I am sinking immediately
To the ground

Listen!
Stop before it is too late
I am sinking down behind you
To where your dead stars shine
Eclipsing the sun with their void

I chased away my friends long ago
But placid is my gaze
I am like a free lone wolf
with his back towards the law
I should put myself in a museum
And live there as an exhibit
That's all, I say, no more -
Don't follow me

Undo it
Break your code
Unhook you from the net
No leaving

Robin

Молодец! Мне понравился твой перевод. / attaboy! I liked your translation.

Thanks for the correction!

Robin

Originally Posted by MikeM

"Feel the worm"

Нельзя же так пугать, я уже было подумала, что там про глистов.

This song stuns everybody who listens to it. It is the excellent, funny joke. After it I always want to ask somebody: “Well, who wants to be repainted?” :"":
It was found by ski-ops from this forum. more is here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18854&start=90

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glvMMfmIQIA

Брюнетка
Группа Kamon

Раньше я была
Натуральная блондинка –
Розовое платьице,
Домик и машинка.
Розовые туфельки,
Сумочка, собачка
Но захотелось перемен –
Купила краски пачку!

Хей, детка, я теперь брюнетка!
Бежать бессмысленно,
Я стреляю метко!
Хей, детка, я теперь – брюнетка!
Спасения нет –
Ты застрял в моей сетке!

Раньше я была натуральной русой –
Косу заплетала, одевалась безвкусно.
Знала где у мужа прячется заначка,
Но захотелось перемен –
Купила краски пачку.

Хей, детка, я теперь брюнетка!
Бежать бессмысленно,
Я стреляю метко!
Хей, детка, я теперь – брюнетка!
Спасения нет –
Ты застрял в моей сетке!

Я стреляю метко!

Ты застрял в моей сетке!

Раньше я была натуральная рыжая.
Дерзкой, красивой, смелой и бесстыжей.
Укрощала тигра, мужика и тачки,
Но захотелось перемен –
Купила краски пачку.

Хей, детка, я теперь брюнетка!
Бежать бессмысленно,
Я стреляю метко!
Хей, детка, я теперь – брюнетка!
Спасения нет –
Ты застрял в моей сетке!

Хей, детка, я теперь брюнетка!
Бежать бессмысленно,
Я стреляю метко!
Хей, детка, я теперь – брюнетка!
Спасения нет –
Ты застрял в моей сетке!

Раньше я была…

Хей! Детка! Я теперь – брю…, брю…, брю…
Хей! Детка! Я теперь брюнетка!
Хей! Я теперь – брю…, брю…, брю…

Хей!!!

Brunette
by “Kamon”

Earlier I was naturally blonde.
And I had all usual attributes of blonde.
I had a pink small clothes,
A pink small house and a pink small car.
Also I had nice pink shoes,
A small handbag, a sweet small dog.
But one day I wanted the changes,
I bought a bundle of hair dye!

Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
Don’t try to run away! It’s senselessly.
My shots are excellent-aimed!
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
You won’t be saved.
You stuck in my nets.

Earlier I was naturally light brown.
I was making my hair into the plait, getting dressed without any charm.
I knew where my husband hides the money.
But one day I wanted the changes,
I bought a bundle of hair dye!

Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
Don’t try to run away! It’s senselessly.
My shots are excellent-aimed!
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
You won’t be saved.
You stuck in my nets.

My shots are excellent-aimed!

You stuck in my nets.

Earlier I was naturally chestnut,
Impudent, beautiful, bold and shameless.
I was taming a tiger, a man and cool cars.
But one day I wanted the changes,
I bought the bundle of hair dye!

Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
Don’t try to run away! It’s senselessly.
My shots are excellent-aimed!
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
You won’t be saved.
You stuck in my nets.

Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
Don’t try to run away! It’s senselessly.
My shots are excellent-aimed!
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
You won’t be saved.
You stuck in my nets.

Earlier I was…

Hey, baby! I am the bru… bru… bru…
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
Hey, baby! I am the bru… bru… bru…

Hey!

That's funny! It's a little bit like the old Danish song Barbie Girl -- also a parody..
[video:12iolryt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y24EKmzgYGU[/video:12iolryt]

Ekaterinak --- I've got to help you with your English in this post; it had some errors! (Don't worry, wait until I start writing in Russian!!! )

This song is stunned everybody who was listening its. --> This song stuns everybody who listens to it.

It is the excellent fanny joke. --> It is an excellent, funny joke. (Warning: "Fanny" is an old nickname for "Frances", but it also means..... private part of women! So the nickname is not used anymore

Well, who wants to be redyed?” --> Well, who wants to be a redhead?

Originally Posted by Johanna

Well, who wants to be redyed?” --> Well, who wants to be a redhead?

Probably, I took the unsuitable word. I wanted to use the passive form of verb “repaint”. It is like “change color of hair”. Maybe it is in other words is “Well, Who wants to be changed color of your hair?”
In Russian it is: Ну, кого перекрасить?!
Эх, нелегкое это дело – учить иностранный язык, но я буду стараться! / Oh, learning of foreign language is not easy thing, but I will try!
Thanks, Johanna for your corrections.



Your phrase "Well, who wants to be a redhead?" in Russian is “Ну, кто хочет быть рыжим?!” has two meanings.
The first one is a simple question is like “Do you want to have red hair?”
The second one has a hidden meaning. Sometimes we use this word “рыжий” (“a person who has red hair”) in meaning of “a person who is guilty of everything, a person of little importance who is blamed for the errors, incompetence, etc., of others, esp his superiors; scapegoat”.
In context of “Brunette” song and my ironic question your variant is almost the goal.
__________________________________________________ _____

Originally Posted by Johanna

That's funny! It's a little bit like the old Danish song Barbie Girl -- also a parody..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y24EKmzgYGU

I cannot see this video. Russian Internet has some limitation of admission to some video. But I think, I know what it is. It is "Barbie Girl" by Aqua, isn't it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxn567bHny8 ???

Originally Posted by ekaterinak

Probably, I took the unsuitable word. I wanted to use the passive form of verb “repaint”. It is like “change color of hair”. Maybe it is in other words is “Well, Who wants to be changed color of your hair?”

That would be 'who wants the color of their hair to be changed?' or simply, without any passive, 'who wants to change their hair color?'.

As for the first sentence, it should be 'I chose an incorrect word'. Regarding articles, which I suppose are a major problem for native speakers of Russian: you use a definite article (the) when you refer to something specific. For instance: 'maybe the word I chose was incorrect'. This sentence refers to the specific word you chose. In the sentence I suggested I used an indefinite article (a, an) because there isn't just a single incorrect word you could have chosen but any number. 'I chose the incorrect word' technically means that there is just a single incorrect word you could have chosen, and you did.

I hope I am making this clear - if you don't understand, please say so and I'll try harder.

Robin

Originally Posted by bitpicker

As for the first sentence, it should be 'I chose an incorrect word'. Regarding articles, which I suppose are a major problem for native speakers of Russian: you use a definite article (the) when you refer to something specific. For instance: 'maybe the word I chose was incorrect'. This sentence refers to the specific word you chose. In the sentence I suggested I used an indefinite article (a, an) because there isn't just a single incorrect word you could have chosen but any number. 'I chose the incorrect word' technically means that there is just a single incorrect word you could have chosen, and you did.

I hope I am making this clear - if you don't understand, please say so and I'll try harder.

Robin

Your explanation was very clear. Thank you very much.

We have widespread joke in Russia. It is about of “Russian articles”. It is words which are littering our speech. They are “типа” and “вроде”. In English it is “like”, “similar”. Very often you can hear them from young people. If somebody to use them more then need we can ask him/her “Where are you from?” from England or USA? Is “типа” your English article “the”?”

So every time I ask myself “What must I use, “the” or “a (an)” or nothing? It is very difficult. Especially it is difficult to choose between “use articles” and “nothing”. I know that I can say: “I like sea (sugar, sunlight…..)” (at all) and also I can use: “I like the Sea” (if I am telling about Red Sea to a person who knows or guesses what kind of sea I mean). But this question is not always so easy.

Actually articles are quite simple, but that's easy for me to say as both my native German and English have them and use them in a similar fashion. Well, if you had to learn German you'd not only have to know when to use an article but also inflict declension on them, so English is the easy way out.

Well, and now that I really start to think about it, it's not quite so easy anymore. I can tell you that it really should be 'I like the sea' in the same way as it should be 'I like the sky'. And you don't use an article with uncountable things of which there still are quantities: milk, sugar, bread are examples. You only use a definite article with them, if you further define them with additional constituents of a sentence: I like milk, but I especially like the milk from the farm over there. However, adjectives etc. are no constituents of their own: I like curdled milk. But if given a choice of normal milk or curdled milk you could then say 'I like the curdled milk' - it's not curdled milk as such in this case, but it is a specific sample of milk set before you.

And it gets worse of course when you consider when to use definite and indefinite articles. It is getting quite off-topic for this thread, so I'll stop here. However, it is refreshing to see what (to us) simple things are hard for native speakers of Russian, so we don't have to feel so stupid when we have a hard time with the peculiarities of Russian.

Robin

I know...sorry...

Originally Posted by bitpicker

However, it is refreshing to see what (to us) simple things are hard for native speakers of Russian.
Robin

Robin, I am soooooo happy that you can explain all of that to ekaterinak! As an ignorant native, I just know naturally which words to say when (well most of the time). I don't remember or never learned most of the rules. It is all of the non-natives who learn all the rules and remember them! It is the same for our government test for immigration! If you had to ask a native the same questions that an immigrant needs to know to become a citizen, all of us natural born citizens would be deported!

It is the same for our government test for immigration! If you had to ask a native the same questions that an immigrant needs to know to become a citizen, all of us natural born citizens would be deported!

Rest assured it is just the same here in Germany...

Actually I spend much time on a forum at delphiforums which is about learning German, and I work there as a tutor. There are so many things I need to teach people which I never thought twice about before, and which weren't even mentioned at any time during my university studies of German and English... I have to come up with rules constantly, rules you never find in any learner's grammar...

Robin

I know it is
But very want to speak about

Originally Posted by bitpicker

Well, and now that I really start to think about it, it's not quite so easy anymore......

My mind has been becoming lighter after your explanation.
Actually, I started to understand English grammar from the books where every explaining was catching a likeness with Russian. Also I have liked the text-book for English studying by Cambridge University Press. There are all explaining in English, without any Russian words at all. But explaining build on everyday situations. I suppose, these ways of learning are the best.
In Russian we have short expression «Объяснить на пальцах». It means to be able to explain hard things with using of easy (down-to-earth language) words. I think, an ability like that is the hi level of mastery. It seems to me, I met here persons like one.

Originally Posted by bitpicker

However, it is refreshing to see what (to us) simple things are hard for native speakers of Russian, so we don't have to feel so stupid when we have a hard time with the peculiarities of Russian.

Well, I constantly remember one thing, everybody has aptitude for foreign languages. Otherwise, Why can we speak in our own languages?
just we (Russian and English, German and English, Russian and German and so on) think in different ways.
Ищущий – да найдет!

Originally Posted by rockzmom

If you had to ask a native the same questions that an immigrant needs to know to become a citizen, all of us natural born citizens would be deported!

It is strange, but after my studying of English I started to understand better my own languages. I think, my knowledge of Russian is more deeper now.
____________________________________________
English native speakers, people who studying Russian, and persons who knows English, please help us with translations of song, for example “Brunette” song. There are many of using of articles (“the”, “a(an)”). And the text is simple. Look at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18854 . There are many Russian songs there. May be somebody wants to translate some. Ask about it. English songs for translation into Russian are interesting too!

For example a piece from “Clock” by Coldplay:

Come out of things unsaid
Shoot an apple off my head and a
Trouble that can't be named
A tiger's waiting to be tamed, singing

What does “an apple of….” mean? I don’t think that it is about an apple as a fruit! Please, help!

What does “an apple of….” mean? I don’t think that it is about an apple as a fruit! Please, help!

Actually I suppose it is about an apple. Do you know Wilhelm Tell? His legend has it that he was a fighter for freedom in Switzerland's history. I don't recall all the details, but there's a story about him being forced to shoot an apple from the head of his son with his crossbow, which he managed to do. I suppose this is in reference to that story.

Robin

Originally Posted by bitpicker

What does “an apple of….” mean? I don’t think that it is about an apple as a fruit! Please, help!

Actually I suppose it is about an apple. Do you know Wilhelm Tell? His legend has it that he was a fighter for freedom in Switzerland's history. I don't recall all the details, but there's a story about him being forced to shoot an apple from the head of his son with his crossbow, which he managed to do. I suppose this is in reference to that story.

Robin

Probably it is, like you told. But in this case it is "Do something very dangerous for a person which is very dear to you" Hm... very interesting!
I did not this meaning before, and I translated it like this

Я выпущу то, что не сказано
Все то, что двусмысленно и не может быть названо:
Надежды, проблемы, дела,
И хищника перед броском сдержит песня моя – Ты.

Well, I really don't know enough Russian to comment on a translation into Russian...

Robin

Originally Posted by ekaterinak

I know it is
But I very much want to speak about this

My laugh for the morning... (not your errors, the fact that you want to stay off topic and it is your thread!) thank you!

Originally Posted by ekaterinak

Well, I constantly remember one thing, everybody has aptitude for foreign languages. Otherwise, Why can we speak in our own languages?

Well..... we speak our own language because we grow up learning it. If my parents and done as I have done with my children and thrown me into an immersion language school at the age of 5, then yes.. I would be able to speak 2 languages. However.. I have tried at different times in my life to learn three different languages and I have failed miserably at each.
With Spanish, I have tried multiple times and failed multiple times I honestly don't think I have the aptitude for language. I have it for many other things, just not that.

Maybe, Maybe... I could do as many of you and learn to read and write a language and just not speak or listen...as that would be more like a programming language and I have in the past learned computer languages. But still, that would be a long stretch and wishful thinking.