Thread: Some questions...

Originally Posted by JackBoni

I'm sorry, Оля. Please give me the two Russian sentences and I will try my best to give you English equivalents.

1. Я часто слышала от Вани, что он не понимает английские слова.

That means that I often talked to Vanya, and every time he told me that he doesn't understand some English word. I have at least several conversations with Vanya. Probably (but not necessary), every time he told me about only one word.

2. Я слышала от Вани, что он часто не понимает английские слова.

That means that I talked to Vanya (maybe only once) and he told me "I often don't understand English words" (he meant many different words).

Okay, let's get these two sentences sorted out. I'm sorry if I confused you beforehand.

1. I have often heard from Vanja that he doesn't understand English words.

On the first occasion, I have probably had many conversations with Vanja.

2. I have heard from Vanja that he often doesn't understand English words.

On the second occasion, I may have only had one such conversation with Vanja.


The same works in English as in Russian. Again, I am sorry if I confused you earlier on. Does that clear up the problem? In addition to the above, I'd like to make you aware of one or two other things:

That means that I often talked to Vanya To me "I often talked to" implies "I used to", meaning that you don't talk to Vanja (at the very least about English words) any longer.), and every time he told me that he doesn't understand some English word. I have at least several -perhaps better would be: "more than one"; your phrase doesn't seem to sound right here.conversations with Vanya. Probably (but not necessarily - here you need an adverb, and not an adjective, like you probably do in Russian?), every time he told me about only one word

The rest is fine. Do you understand the difference between the two tenses? I imagine that the small differences in meaning between the many English past tenses are difficult to grasp.

Okay, so my original sentence about Americans should be:
I don't know about the British, but I have often heard from Americans that they don't understand...

Yes, that's right, Оля.

Unfortunately I'm almost completely unable to explain the grammar behind the English tense system, but with a bit of luck, maybe you understand it better now? If you need more examples, just ask, as always.

To be honest, Jack, I actually don't need any explanations, and it would be far enough to me if you just had corrected my wrong sentence "I many times have heard from Americans..." to "I have often heard from Americans...". But you corrected it in another way, so I was confused.

I don't mean to be rude and say "I don't care about your explanations, don't give me them!", I simply say that I understand things much better when I just see together my wrong variant and the correct one. Any grammatical or any other explanations only confuse me. I even don't understand my mistakes well when I see only an explanation and do not see the corrected sentence.

Of course, all I said above applies to me only, and prrobably other people here do need explanations. I only meant myself.

Oh, okay, no problem. No offense taken. That suits me just fine - that way, I write less and you get your corrections faster.

Originally Posted by Оля

Okay, so my original sentence about Americans should be:
I don't know about the British, but I have often heard from Americans that they don't understand...

Yes, “I have often heard from Americans...” is grammatically perfect, and all native speakers of English would understand it. But sometimes the sentence still sounds odd to my ear, and I'm not quite sure why.

Sounds normal: I have often heard that they don't understand...
Sounds normal: I have heard from Americans that they don't understand...
Sounds slightly odd: I have often heard from Americans that they don't understand...

If I say the sentence rapidly and don't have time to think about it, then it sounds fine. But when I think about it more carefully, it starts to feel odd. Somehow the “often” and the “from Americans” sound clumsy together.

I think in AmE we are more likely to say, “Americans have often told me that they don't understand...” That sounds perfectly normal.

BTW, both Olya's and Jack Boni's comments about Americans not always understanding other dialects of English are well taken. I can add another example. My brother was at a bar in New Zealand, and a girl he was drinking with looked at him and said, “I am so pissed.” My brother was taken aback and wondered how he had offended her. “Pissed” usually means “angry” in American slang, but the girl was a Kiwi, and in her slang it meant “drunk.” It took my brother a month or two before he understood what had happened.

Doninphxaz - I would argue that there are a lot of phrases that would sound odd if you repeated them a few times. The way you phrased it sounds fine to me, too, and I'm British.

In British slang, the word "pissed" would sooner be associated with being drunk, but again, it would also depend on the speaker's tone of voice. To indicate that we're angry, we say "pissed off" - which can also have another meaning.

"I'm pissed off with my dad" = I'm angry with him.

"Where's your dad gone?" "Oh, he pissed off yesterday" - meaning "he left". This would be an expression to avoid, though, because not only is it slang, but it's also quite rude. Do you say that in America? Does it sound particularly rude?

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Where's your dad gone?" "Oh, he pissed off yesterday" - meaning "he left". This would be an expression to avoid, though, because not only is it slang, but it's also quite rude. Do you say that in America? Does it sound particularly rude?

Hm. "Oh, he pissed off yesterday" doesn't particularly mean anything in AmE. The hearer would pause and think, "What is that guy trying to say?" Did he accidentally leave out a word, thus “He was pissed off yesterday” = “He was angry yesterday”?

Slang changes quickly. Sometimes things really surprise me. I'm a college instructor and encounter these things regularly. Last semester a student visited me during office hours and said, "Wow, you are a beast!" To me this meant, «Какой вы гад!» I chose not to be offended because he is a brainless nineteen year old who hasn't the foggiest idea of how the world works nor what a stupid thing he had just done in offending the instructor. Then over the next few weeks, when he got an answer right in class, I heard him say, “Damn, I'm a beast!” Then I understood that the phrase meant “really good” to him.

Or the other one that threw me off last year was “crunk.” The word meant nothing to me, but to -all- of my students it meant high and drunk at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Оля

I even don't understand my mistakes well when I see only an explanation and do not see the corrected sentence.

The same with me.

I actually don't need any explanations

I agree, often explanations are not needed.

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Originally Posted by Ramil

I'd recommend anything with russian subtitles.

Спасибо, Ramil. In English the names of all languages and nationalities begin with a capital letter. So, it should be Russian subtitles.

Я еще здесь хотела сказать JackBoni, что не стоит так усердствовать, но потом решила это дело отложить. Странно было бы думать, что Рамиль до сих пор не знает того правила, учитывая его уровень. Просто забыл или поленился нажать Shift (CapsLock), так же, как многие носители английского языка.

Originally Posted by Оля

Of course, all I said above applies to me only, and probably other people here do need explanations. I only meant myself.

Нет, это относится не только к тебе. Мне тоже больше всего нравится, в моих высказываниях исправляют ошибки, выделяя цветом те места, где ошибки были. Так, как у нас принято (на месте выражений, которые никуда не годились, появляется текст, выделенный красным, стилистические исправления выделяются зеленым). Таким образом я не читаю свои ошибки еще раз. Увы, принцип «Повторенье мать ученья» может работать и против учащегося. Если часто видеть ошибочное написание, то оно как минимум потеснит правильное. А может и вовсе вытеснить.
JackBoni, нам удобней видеть текст со всеми исправлениями, пусть даже местами полностью переписанный. Лично мне это нужно для того, чтобы знать, что если я так напишу еще где-либо, меня уже не будут поправлять, что "иностранного налета" в этом тексте нет, знать, что именно так и сформулировал бы эту мысль носитель языка (конечно, если исправляется текст, написанный начинающим, то его "вылизывать" не обязательно, там можно и оставить стилистические огрехи). E. g.

Originally Posted by Ramil

I'd recommend anything with Russian subtitles.

That's the way we usually correct mistakes. We've got used to it.
Против объяснений и правил ничего не имею, они бывают приятным дополнением. (: В конце концов, если они мне не нужны, то пропущу, а если нужны, но никто их не написал, поищу сама или попрошу написать.
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Please, don't correct my mistakes in this message.
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