Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Some questions

  1. #1
    Властелин
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Сварга
    Posts
    1,391
    Rep Power
    12

    Some questions

    Язык был создан богом, артикли - дьяволом.
    How to say this correct?
    The speech was created by God and the articles - by Devil.

    Я люблю ходить в гости.
    How to say this if I mean not certain people I love to visit but the process of visiting/being a guest.

    Я ценю его чувство юмора vs. Я высоко оцениваю его чувство юмора.
    I appreciate his sense of humour? I have a high opinion of his sense of humour?

  2. #2
    Почётный участник
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    119
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Indra
    Язык был создан богом, артикли - дьяволом.
    How to say this correct?
    The speech was created by God and the articles - by Devil.
    You know why this is hard to translate into English? A surprising number of native speakers would not know what an "article" (as it is used in grammar) is -- even though they use them in every other sentence! Even fewer would know that they cause massive headaches for Russians.

    My take:

    "Language was created by G-d. Indefinite articles, by the devil."

    Yes ... I added the word "Indefinite". Yes ... I know "Definite" articles cause headaches too. But without a qualifier, most people would think you are talking about newspaper articles.


    Quote Originally Posted by Indra
    Я люблю ходить в гости.
    How to say this if I mean not certain people I love to visit but the process of visiting/being a guest.
    My take: "I love visiting."


    Quote Originally Posted by Indra
    Я ценю его чувство юмора vs. Я высоко оцениваю его чувство юмора.
    I appreciate his sense of humour? I have a high opinion of his sense of humour?
    The 2nd sounds awkward, but it is not incorrect. The first one is perfectly fine and I hear it all the time. If you want to be a bit more conversational, you might use: "We share the same sense of humor." But, as I said, the 1st one is fine as it is. No need to change it.
    —Ravin' Dave

  3. #3
    Старший оракул
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Almaty (former Alma-Ata), Kazakhstan
    Posts
    920
    Rep Power
    10
    "Language was created by G-d. Indefinite articles, by the devil."

    Yes ... I added the word "Indefinite". Yes ... I know "Definite" articles cause headaches too. But without a qualifier, most people would think you are talking about newspaper articles.
    There must be some other way. Isn't it possible to say something like:

    "grammar articles"
    "grammatical articles"
    "articles in grammar"
    Please correct my mistakes if you can, especially article usage.
    My avatar shall be the author I'm currently reading.

  4. #4
    Почётный участник
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    119
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim84
    "Language was created by G-d. Indefinite articles, by the devil."

    Yes ... I added the word "Indefinite". Yes ... I know "Definite" articles cause headaches too. But without a qualifier, most people would think you are talking about newspaper articles.
    There must be some other way. Isn't it possible to say something like:

    "grammar articles"
    "grammatical articles"
    "articles in grammar"
    Well ... a lot depends on your target audience. If you're speaking to a room full of teachers, you can use "articles" by itself and it would be fine. I'm assuming a more general translation.

    Saying "grammar articles" might be technically correct, but is sounds very strained. Since the line is meant to be a joke, you want it to flow as naturally as possible. You want people to focus on the joke -- not the odd choice of words.
    —Ravin' Dave

  5. #5
    Старший оракул
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Almaty (former Alma-Ata), Kazakhstan
    Posts
    920
    Rep Power
    10
    Well, then I'd translate it as "articles", just articles.

    "Language was created by God. Articles, by the devil."

    If there are some uneducated people who don't know about grammar articles, it's their own problem
    Please correct my mistakes if you can, especially article usage.
    My avatar shall be the author I'm currently reading.

  6. #6
    Почётный участник
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    119
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim84
    Well, then I'd translate it as "articles", just articles.

    "Language was created by God. Articles, by the devil."

    If there are some uneducated people who don't know about grammar articles, it's their own problem
    We could go for laughs:

    "В начале было Слово! Тогда, некоторый дурак изобрел артикли."
    —Ravin' Dave

  7. #7
    007
    007 is offline
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Vancouver BC, Canada
    Posts
    45
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by RavinDave
    We could go for laughs:

    "В начале было Слово! Потом какой-то дурак изобрел артикли."
    Correct my English, please.

  8. #8
    Властелин
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Сварга
    Posts
    1,391
    Rep Power
    12
    Thank you very much for replies.

    How to use comparative degrees with "appreciate":
    I don't much appreciate his sense of humour/I appreciate it high.

    Can I say "appreciate" about people.
    Мы все тебя высоко ценим - We all appreciate you

    If one says "Language was created by God", do everybody understand that not any specific language (say, English) is meant?

    RavinDave,
    No no, articles are Devil's deliberate invention, not some fool's
    Believe me!

  9. #9
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3,216
    Rep Power
    13
    Thank you very much for the replies.

    How do I/you use comparative degrees with "appreciate":
    I don't appreciate his sense of humour much/I appreciate it very much/a lot.

    Can I say "appreciate" about people.
    Мы все тебя высоко ценим - We all appreciate you
    No. You can say something like "we appreciate you coming/we appreciate your attention"

    If one says "Language was created by God", does everybody understand that no specific language (say, English) is meant?
    They should do, unless they are stupid.

  10. #10
    Почётный участник
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    119
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Indra
    Thank you very much for your replies.

    How do you use comparative degrees with "appreciate":
    I don't much appreciate his sense of humour/I appreciate it high.

    Can I say "appreciate" about people.
    Мы все тебя высоко ценим - We all appreciate you
    I appreciate him.
    I appreciate his sense of honor.
    I appreciate her advice.
    I appreciate a good cigar after a big meal.
    I can appreciate that you are worried, but assure you it is not necessary.
    I appreciate classical music more than rap.
    I appreciate your help more than his.
    I appreciate Chekhov more than Turgenyev.

    I would be more appreciative if you would let me handle the situation.
    Old guys appreciate young women who flirt.
    Young women appreciate old guys with money.

    I don't appreciate that last comment.
    I don't much appreciate that last comment.
    I don't really appreciate that last comment.
    I really don't appreciate that last comment. (more emphatic)
    I'd be more appreciative of a funnier one.
    I'd be most appreciative if you'd leave the jokes to TATY.

    Hope you appreciate the responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indra
    If one says "Language was created by God", does everybody understand that not any specific language (say, English) is meant?
    Yes.
    —Ravin' Dave

  11. #11
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    341
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Indra
    Thank you very much for replies.

    How to use comparative degrees with "appreciate":
    I don't much appreciate his sense of humour/I appreciate it high.

    Can I say "appreciate" about people.
    Мы все тебя высоко ценим - We all appreciate you

    If one says "Language was created by God", do everybody understand that not any specific language (say, English) is meant?

    RavinDave,
    No no, articles are Devil's deliberate invention, not some fool's
    Believe me!
    It is tricky in English to do comparative with "appreciate". One way is with a noun phrase: "I have more (or, "a lot of") appreciation now for this artist."

    For superlative you can do the same thing: "What I have the MOST appreciation for is . . ."

    I'm still thinking about your first question though. I think it would have to change a bit to sound good in English.

    Maybe "The language was made by God, but the articles came from the Devil." A little funnier if you say, "The (English) language may have been made by God, but the articles come straight from the Devil." That's about the best I can do on that. As mentioned, some English speakers might be confused about "articles", but I don't think there's any way around that.

  12. #12
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Seventh
    Posts
    4,113
    Rep Power
    15
    I appreciate it
    I appreciate it more than...
    I appreciate it the most
    Ingenting kan stoppa mig
    In Post-Soviet Russia internet porn downloads YOU!

  13. #13
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    341
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    I appreciate it
    I appreciate it more than...
    I appreciate it the most
    I'm pretty sure I have never heard anyone say "I appreciate it the most." You could do this with a noun rather than a pronoun though. "While I appreciate all of you, I appreciate John the most." Or, you could say, "That is what I appreciate most."

    In normal conversation, if you want to emphasize "appreciate", just put "really" in front of it. "I would really appreciate it if you would shut up."

    Another way to do this is with the phrase "What I appreciate is . . ."

    What I appreciate even more is . . .
    What I appreciate most is . . .
    or
    What I most appreciate is . . . (less common)

  14. #14
    Властелин
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Сварга
    Posts
    1,391
    Rep Power
    12
    It is even more tricky than it seemed to me
    "Language was created by God. Articles, by the devil."
    "The language was made by God, but the articles came from the Devil."
    See now? Is it "language" or "the language"? How can a poor Russian guess this on his own?

  15. #15
    Почётный участник
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    119
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Indra
    See now? Is it "language" or "the language"? How can a poor Russian guess this on his own?


    I feel your pain, but you worry too much.

    BOTH examples COULD have been rendered with or without the articles. It's more a question of style. Adding/omitting them changes the flavor slightly. But no one will point at giggle if you prefer one over the other.

    "Language was created by God. Articles, by the devil."

    This first example spoke of "language" in general -- almost as a concept. In these cases, the article tends to drop out as a way to emphasize the idea behind the word. It makes it sound more like a proverb than a statement. eg:

    Love is blind (not "the love")
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (not "the beauty").
    Honesty is the best policy.

    "The language was made by God, but the articles came from the Devil."

    When you add the article, it tends to narrow it down to a specific thing. eg:

    The weather is terrible.
    The time is ripe to act.

    In this case, the sentence less of a "proverb" and more of a blunt statement of fact about a specific (unnamed) language.
    —Ravin' Dave

  16. #16
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    165
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by paulb
    In normal conversation, if you want to emphasize "appreciate", just put "really" in front of it. "I would really appreciate it if you would shut up."
    In my life it's a frase I would like to use the most...
    Of all the things I've lost I miss MY MIND the most...

  17. #17
    Старший оракул
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Almaty (former Alma-Ata), Kazakhstan
    Posts
    920
    Rep Power
    10
    Now, how about:

    "Languages were created by God. Articles, by the devil."

    If Indra doesn't mean a specific language, maybe it will work. Or will it?



    P.S. It's phrase, not frase.
    Please correct my mistakes if you can, especially article usage.
    My avatar shall be the author I'm currently reading.

  18. #18
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    341
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim84
    Now, how about:

    "Languages were created by God. Articles, by the devil."

    If Indra doesn't mean a specific language, maybe it will work. Or will it?



    P.S. It's phrase, not frase.
    That's good, Vadim. I might change the punctuation: Languages were created by God; articles by the Devil.

    Also fine is Language was created by God; etc.

    Both of those look good in written English. In spoken English I would use something longer like what I wrote before. Sometimes when speaking you have to add a few words to make it clear what you mean. In writing, the reader can take some time to figure it out.

  19. #19
    Завсегдатай chaika's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Чапелхилловка, NC USA
    Posts
    1,987
    Rep Power
    16
    That's a little like

    The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic was built by professionals.

  20. #20
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3,216
    Rep Power
    13
    But articles are a part of language.... If God created language, how can the devil have created articles? Impossible... unless they are the same person!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. A few questions
    By sefbarisovich in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: February 7th, 2008, 10:21 PM
  2. A few questions?
    By coldspell in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: August 21st, 2007, 11:57 PM
  3. five questions
    By Ilkay in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: July 25th, 2007, 08:03 AM
  4. Some Questions
    By Darobat in forum Translate This!
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: July 21st, 2005, 05:17 PM
  5. A few Questions
    By Darobat in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: July 6th, 2005, 12:48 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Russian Lessons                           

Russian Tests and Quizzes            

Russian Vocabulary