Thread: Some questions

Язык был создан богом, артикли - дьяволом.
How to say this correct?
The speech was created by God and the articles - by Devil.

Я люблю ходить в гости.
How to say this if I mean not certain people I love to visit but the process of visiting/being a guest.

Я ценю его чувство юмора vs. Я высоко оцениваю его чувство юмора.
I appreciate his sense of humour? I have a high opinion of his sense of humour?

Originally Posted by Indra

Язык был создан богом, артикли - дьяволом.
How to say this correct?
The speech was created by God and the articles - by Devil.

You know why this is hard to translate into English? A surprising number of native speakers would not know what an "article" (as it is used in grammar) is -- even though they use them in every other sentence! Even fewer would know that they cause massive headaches for Russians.

My take:

"Language was created by G-d. Indefinite articles, by the devil."

Yes ... I added the word "Indefinite". Yes ... I know "Definite" articles cause headaches too. But without a qualifier, most people would think you are talking about newspaper articles.

Originally Posted by Indra

Я люблю ходить в гости.
How to say this if I mean not certain people I love to visit but the process of visiting/being a guest.

My take: "I love visiting."

Originally Posted by Indra

Я ценю его чувство юмора vs. Я высоко оцениваю его чувство юмора.
I appreciate his sense of humour? I have a high opinion of his sense of humour?

The 2nd sounds awkward, but it is not incorrect. The first one is perfectly fine and I hear it all the time. If you want to be a bit more conversational, you might use: "We share the same sense of humor." But, as I said, the 1st one is fine as it is. No need to change it.

"Language was created by G-d. Indefinite articles, by the devil."

Yes ... I added the word "Indefinite". Yes ... I know "Definite" articles cause headaches too. But without a qualifier, most people would think you are talking about newspaper articles.

There must be some other way. Isn't it possible to say something like:

"grammar articles"
"grammatical articles"
"articles in grammar"

Originally Posted by Vadim84

"Language was created by G-d. Indefinite articles, by the devil."

Yes ... I added the word "Indefinite". Yes ... I know "Definite" articles cause headaches too. But without a qualifier, most people would think you are talking about newspaper articles.

There must be some other way. Isn't it possible to say something like:

"grammar articles"
"grammatical articles"
"articles in grammar"

Well ... a lot depends on your target audience. If you're speaking to a room full of teachers, you can use "articles" by itself and it would be fine. I'm assuming a more general translation.

Saying "grammar articles" might be technically correct, but is sounds very strained. Since the line is meant to be a joke, you want it to flow as naturally as possible. You want people to focus on the joke -- not the odd choice of words.

Well, then I'd translate it as "articles", just articles.

"Language was created by God. Articles, by the devil."

If there are some uneducated people who don't know about grammar articles, it's their own problem

Originally Posted by Vadim84

Well, then I'd translate it as "articles", just articles.

"Language was created by God. Articles, by the devil."

If there are some uneducated people who don't know about grammar articles, it's their own problem

We could go for laughs:

"В начале было Слово! Тогда, некоторый дурак изобрел артикли."

Originally Posted by RavinDave

We could go for laughs:

"В начале было Слово! Потом какой-то дурак изобрел артикли."

Thank you very much for replies.

How to use comparative degrees with "appreciate":
I don't much appreciate his sense of humour/I appreciate it high.

Can I say "appreciate" about people.
Мы все тебя высоко ценим - We all appreciate you

If one says "Language was created by God", do everybody understand that not any specific language (say, English) is meant?

RavinDave,
No no, articles are Devil's deliberate invention, not some fool's
Believe me!

Thank you very much for the replies.

How do I/you use comparative degrees with "appreciate":
I don't appreciate his sense of humour much/I appreciate it very much/a lot.

Can I say "appreciate" about people.
Мы все тебя высоко ценим - We all appreciate you

No. You can say something like "we appreciate you coming/we appreciate your attention"

If one says "Language was created by God", does everybody understand that no specific language (say, English) is meant?

They should do, unless they are stupid.

Originally Posted by Indra

Thank you very much for your replies.

How do you use comparative degrees with "appreciate":
I don't much appreciate his sense of humour/I appreciate it high.

Can I say "appreciate" about people.
Мы все тебя высоко ценим - We all appreciate you

I appreciate him.
I appreciate his sense of honor.
I appreciate her advice.
I appreciate a good cigar after a big meal.
I can appreciate that you are worried, but assure you it is not necessary.
I appreciate classical music more than rap.
I appreciate your help more than his.
I appreciate Chekhov more than Turgenyev.

I would be more appreciative if you would let me handle the situation.
Old guys appreciate young women who flirt.
Young women appreciate old guys with money.

I don't appreciate that last comment.
I don't much appreciate that last comment.
I don't really appreciate that last comment.
I really don't appreciate that last comment. (more emphatic)
I'd be more appreciative of a funnier one.
I'd be most appreciative if you'd leave the jokes to TATY.

Hope you appreciate the responses.

Originally Posted by Indra

If one says "Language was created by God", does everybody understand that not any specific language (say, English) is meant?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Indra

Thank you very much for replies.

How to use comparative degrees with "appreciate":
I don't much appreciate his sense of humour/I appreciate it high.

Can I say "appreciate" about people.
Мы все тебя высоко ценим - We all appreciate you

If one says "Language was created by God", do everybody understand that not any specific language (say, English) is meant?

RavinDave,
No no, articles are Devil's deliberate invention, not some fool's
Believe me!

It is tricky in English to do comparative with "appreciate". One way is with a noun phrase: "I have more (or, "a lot of") appreciation now for this artist."

For superlative you can do the same thing: "What I have the MOST appreciation for is . . ."

I'm still thinking about your first question though. I think it would have to change a bit to sound good in English.

Maybe "The language was made by God, but the articles came from the Devil." A little funnier if you say, "The (English) language may have been made by God, but the articles come straight from the Devil." That's about the best I can do on that. As mentioned, some English speakers might be confused about "articles", but I don't think there's any way around that.

I appreciate it
I appreciate it more than...
I appreciate it the most

Originally Posted by TATY

I appreciate it
I appreciate it more than...
I appreciate it the most

I'm pretty sure I have never heard anyone say "I appreciate it the most." You could do this with a noun rather than a pronoun though. "While I appreciate all of you, I appreciate John the most." Or, you could say, "That is what I appreciate most."

In normal conversation, if you want to emphasize "appreciate", just put "really" in front of it. "I would really appreciate it if you would shut up."

Another way to do this is with the phrase "What I appreciate is . . ."

What I appreciate even more is . . .
What I appreciate most is . . .
or
What I most appreciate is . . . (less common)

It is even more tricky than it seemed to me

"Language was created by God. Articles, by the devil."

"The language was made by God, but the articles came from the Devil."

See now? Is it "language" or "the language"? How can a poor Russian guess this on his own?

Originally Posted by Indra

See now? Is it "language" or "the language"? How can a poor Russian guess this on his own?

I feel your pain, but you worry too much.

BOTH examples COULD have been rendered with or without the articles. It's more a question of style. Adding/omitting them changes the flavor slightly. But no one will point at giggle if you prefer one over the other.

"Language was created by God. Articles, by the devil."

This first example spoke of "language" in general -- almost as a concept. In these cases, the article tends to drop out as a way to emphasize the idea behind the word. It makes it sound more like a proverb than a statement. eg:

Love is blind (not "the love")
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (not "the beauty").
Honesty is the best policy.

"The language was made by God, but the articles came from the Devil."

When you add the article, it tends to narrow it down to a specific thing. eg:

The weather is terrible.
The time is ripe to act.

In this case, the sentence less of a "proverb" and more of a blunt statement of fact about a specific (unnamed) language.

Originally Posted by paulb

In normal conversation, if you want to emphasize "appreciate", just put "really" in front of it. "I would really appreciate it if you would shut up."

In my life it's a frase I would like to use the most...

Now, how about:

"Languages were created by God. Articles, by the devil."

If Indra doesn't mean a specific language, maybe it will work. Or will it?



P.S. It's phrase, not frase.

Originally Posted by Vadim84

Now, how about:

"Languages were created by God. Articles, by the devil."

If Indra doesn't mean a specific language, maybe it will work. Or will it?



P.S. It's phrase, not frase.

That's good, Vadim. I might change the punctuation: Languages were created by God; articles by the Devil.

Also fine is Language was created by God; etc.

Both of those look good in written English. In spoken English I would use something longer like what I wrote before. Sometimes when speaking you have to add a few words to make it clear what you mean. In writing, the reader can take some time to figure it out.

That's a little like

The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic was built by professionals.

But articles are a part of language.... If God created language, how can the devil have created articles? Impossible... unless they are the same person!