Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

  1. #1
    Подающий надежды оратор
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    39
    Rep Power
    11

    How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    How did the "k" get into Popkov? Why didn't it just stay Popov?

    So would Smirnkov sound weird like Popkov?

  2. #2
    Подающий надежды оратор
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    16
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by thelaxu
    How did the "k" get into Popkov?
    Поп (priest) -> Попов
    Попок (diminutive-caressing of поп/priest) -> Попков
    Quote Originally Posted by thelaxu
    Why didn't it just stay Popov?
    These are two very different surnames.
    Помогу с русским языком и просто поболтаю
    ICQ 364400135
    Skype the.mike.
    VK 7139969

  3. #3
    Властелин wanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Russia,Obninsk
    Posts
    1,467
    Rep Power
    17

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by the.mike
    Попка (diminutive-caressing of поп/priest) -> Попков
    Вообще-то, скорее "попок".
    Семь бед, один Reset

  4. #4
    Подающий надежды оратор
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    16
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by wanja
    Quote Originally Posted by the.mike
    Попка (diminutive-caressing of поп/priest) -> Попков
    Вообще-то, скорее "попок".
    Наверное спасибо!
    Помогу с русским языком и просто поболтаю
    ICQ 364400135
    Skype the.mike.
    VK 7139969

  5. #5
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    5,073
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by wanja
    Quote Originally Posted by the.mike
    Попка (diminutive-caressing of поп/priest) -> Попков
    Вообще-то, скорее "попок".
    Или Попко. )

  6. #6
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Russland
    Posts
    9,874
    Rep Power
    22

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by thelaxu
    So would Smirnkov sound weird like Popkov?
    Why do you think Popkov sounds weird? It doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by the.mike
    Попка
    Если бы фамилия происходила от слова "попка", то ударение было бы другое - Пóпков. А скорее всего вообще было бы Пóпкин.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  7. #7
    Подающий надежды оратор
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    39
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by the.mike
    Quote Originally Posted by thelaxu
    How did the "k" get into Popkov?
    Поп (priest) -> Попов
    Попок (diminutive-caressing of поп/priest) -> Попков
    Quote Originally Posted by thelaxu
    Why didn't it just stay Popov?
    These are two very different surnames.
    Does the same rule now apply to the surnames listed below? I'm just wondering if adding a "к" in the name makes it a corruption (a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct.) Lots of surnames used by Americans are corruptions, I would consider the surname Eisenhower to be a corruption, it should be Eisenhauer.

    Смирнков
    Иванков
    Кузнецков
    Попков
    Соколков
    Лебедкев
    Козлков
    Новикков
    Морозков
    Петрков
    Волкков
    Соловькёв
    Василькев
    Зайцкев
    Павлков
    Семёнков
    Голубкев
    Виноградков
    Богданков
    Воробькёв

  8. #8
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Russland
    Posts
    9,874
    Rep Power
    22

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by thelaxu
    Does the same rule now apply to the surnames listed below?
    No.

    There is no any particular "rule" here. It's just that there is the word поп and there is the word попок. But it doesn't mean that words like смирнок, козлок, новикок, and others exist. They don't. Most of 'surnames' in your list don't exist and many of them are even impossible or very hard to pronounce.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  9. #9
    Подающий надежды оратор
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    39
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Ok, so most of those "surnames" don't exist.

    How about the former Russian mafia member Вячеслав Иваньков?

    How did Иванов become Иваньков? Does Иваньков sound weird?

  10. #10
    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,048
    Rep Power
    29

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by thelaxu
    Ok, so most of those "surnames" don't exist.

    How about the former Russian mafia member Вячеслав Иваньков?

    How did Иванов become Иваньков? Does Иваньков sound weird?
    He has never been Иванов in fact. Иваньков sounds more or less like Jenkins or Dobkins in English.

    Look, in fact there are some rules or at least some basis for linguistic theorycrafting. But it is difficult to craft such theories without deep knowledge of Russian linguistics. At least I feel that my knowledge is not enough.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

  11. #11
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    5,073
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by thelaxu
    I'm just wondering if adding a "к" in the name makes it a corruption (a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct.)
    It's not a corruption. They are DIFFERENT SURNAMES!!! Really.
    I checked, and some sources say that Popkov derives from Popko - an obscure FIRST name (or should I say a nickname), that derived from 'pop'. So Popov (presumably) is a priest's son, Popkov is a son of someone, named after a priest. If Popov is made after 'popok' (diminutive from 'pop') after all, they are still different surnames. 'Popok' is more derogatory, so if the priest was not respected they could call him 'popok', and his children would have been Попковы.
    If you change Popkov to Popov, it will be a different name, because this is not a spelling 'mistake' or corruption, "k" is there for a reason.
    Does it answer your question?

    Anyway, why is this obsession with Popkov?

    PS. And yes, some of the surnames in your list do not exist or sound unnatural, because they break a common pattern.

  12. #12
    Подающий надежды оратор
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    39
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by it-ogo
    Quote Originally Posted by thelaxu
    Ok, so most of those "surnames" don't exist.

    How about the former Russian mafia member Вячеслав Иваньков?

    How did Иванов become Иваньков? Does Иваньков sound weird?
    He has never been Иванов in fact. Иваньков sounds more or less like Jenkins or Dobkins in English.

    Look, in fact there are some rules or at least some basis for linguistic theorycrafting. But it is difficult to craft such theories without deep knowledge of Russian linguistics. At least I feel that my knowledge is not enough.
    Well, Jenkins and Dobkins sounds perfectly normal in English, not weird or funny at all, so I guess Иваньков sounds perfectly normal in Russian, not weird or funny?

  13. #13
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    5,073
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    An addendum to my previous post.

    You should realise, that letters in Russian surnames do not appear out of the blue, you can't put them in randomly and create a different surname. Often (but not always) 'K' is a trace of the diminutive suffixes (-ик, -чик, -ок, etc). That means that such a surname derives not from the full form of the word, but from its diminutive.

    So..

    Смирнков - hypothetically possible, but google failed to find anyone with this surname
    Иванков - possible (from Иванко (first name))
    Кузнецков - sounds really bad, but possible, if derives from Кузнецк (a geographical name). Or it should be Кузнечиков (from Кузнечик)
    Попков - possible
    Соколков - possible (from соколок)
    Лебедкев - IMPOSSIBLE, should be either Лебедков or Лебёдкин (or anything else)
    Козлков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Козликов (from козлик)
    Новикков - IMPOSSIBLE and looks like a typo, Новиков can't be changed
    Морозков - possible (from морозко)
    Петрков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Петриков
    Волкков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Волчков (from волчок)
    Соловькёв - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Соловков or Соловкин or Соловушкин (from соловушка), etc.
    Василькев - probably possible (with stress on 'и'), but sounds weird. Васильков is much more natural and common
    Зайцкев - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Зайчиков, Зайкин or Зайков
    Павлков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Павликов
    Семёнков - possible, but Семенков ('е' instead of 'ё' and different stress) seems more common
    Голубкев - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Голубков
    Виноградков - possible
    Богданков - possible
    Воробькёв - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Воробкин, Воробков or even Воробушкин

  14. #14
    Подающий надежды оратор
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    39
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Now I understand. Thank you.

  15. #15
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Russland
    Posts
    9,874
    Rep Power
    22

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
    Смирнков - hypothetically possible

    Василькев - probably possible (with stress on 'и')
    I disagree here. Both look completely impossible to me.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  16. #16
    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Moscow reg.
    Posts
    2,549
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
    An addendum to my previous post.

    You should realise, that letters in Russian surnames do not appear out of the blue, you can't put them in randomly and create a different surname. Often (but not always) 'K' is a trace of the diminutive suffixes (-ик, -чик, -ок, etc). That means that such a surname derives not from the full form of the word, but from its diminutive.

    So..

    Смирнков - hypothetically possible, but google failed to find anyone with this surname
    Иванков - possible (from Иванко (first name))
    Кузнецков - sounds really bad, but possible, if derives from Кузнецк (a geographical name). Or it should be Кузнечиков (from Кузнечик)
    Попков - possible
    Соколков - possible (from соколок)
    Лебедкев - IMPOSSIBLE, should be either Лебедков or Лебёдкин (or anything else)
    Козлков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Козликов (from козлик)
    Новикков - IMPOSSIBLE and looks like a typo, Новиков can't be changed
    Морозков - possible (from морозко)
    Петрков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Петриков
    Волкков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Волчков (from волчок)
    Соловькёв - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Соловков or Соловкин or Соловушкин (from соловушка), etc.
    Василькев - probably possible (with stress on 'и'), but sounds weird. Васильков is much more natural and common
    Зайцкев - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Зайчиков, Зайкин or Зайков
    Павлков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Павликов
    Семёнков - possible, but Семенков ('е' instead of 'ё' and different stress) seems more common
    Голубкев - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Голубков
    Виноградков - possible
    Богданков - possible
    Воробькёв - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Воробкин, Воробков or even Воробушкин
    Wow! There is my surname here
    Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!

  17. #17
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    5,073
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Now I understand. Thank you.
    You are welcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
    Смирнков - hypothetically possible
    Василькев - probably possible (with stress on 'и')
    I disagree here. Both look completely impossible to me.
    Well, I said 'probably' and 'hypothetically', because weird things do happen. You never know... But I agree, that they sound a bit forced.

  18. #18
    Новичок
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    2
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    There are a lot of ways to construct surname in Russia. It may be not only from name of men, but also from the name of a villarge or a town, where this men anytime had lived, for exsample. Or fought there anytime. Иваньков or Попков could born from "Иваньково" and "Попково" оr "Попки".
    Морозков could form from Морозко - ancient russian name. I can tell more about history of forming russian surnames, but my english is so foul...
    I`m sorry.
    PS: "Виноградков" - impossible, because there wasn`t firstname or sobriquet, or geographical name. May be "Виноградинов", if any women`s sobriquet in this kin was "виноградина" (undersized and plump ). But unlikely because of its length: sobriquet must be shorter. More it may be "Виноградырев" - from profession. Or "Виноградников" if somebody of kin had a big vineyard, or his mother gave birth to him under the bush of vine. And so on

  19. #19
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    5,073
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

    Quote Originally Posted by enge
    PS: "Виноградков" - impossible, because there wasn`t firstname or sobriquet, or geographical name.
    Some villagers say "виноградка" instead of "виноградинка" (a grape). I think it's within the realm of possibility, that Виноградков can stem from this. Moreover, Виноградкин does exist (same roots), so why not Виноградков?

    I'm not trying to prove that this is a common name or anything (it will be rare for sure), but it's linguistically and historically possible.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 14
    Last Post: March 24th, 2010, 04:03 PM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: March 16th, 2010, 12:13 PM
  3. How to say "Bless our home" and "Happy Holidays" in Russian?
    By Ruby Daniels in forum How do you Say... in Russian?
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: December 19th, 2009, 03:29 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: February 17th, 2009, 08:07 PM
  5. British "property" vs. "realty" or "
    By Propp in forum Learn English - Грамматика, переводы, словарный запас
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: November 12th, 2003, 03:20 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Russian Lessons                           

Russian Tests and Quizzes            

Russian Vocabulary