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Thread: Ukraine: Two incidents involving foreigners in disco and night club.

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    Почтенный гражданин LXNDR's Avatar
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    Ukraine: Two incidents involving foreigners in disco and night club.

    On April 28th in a town Konstantinovka in Donetsk region in the sports complex belonging to a local vocational school a basketball match was held. A team of American Peace Corps volunteers played against the select team of the town. It was the first event of such profile here and many people came to watch the game.

    A local ecologist and activist Vladimir Berezin reported that at night 8 young foreigners, Peace Corps volunteers, went out to a local disco-bar "Trizona" at Kosmonavtov blvd

    Having arranged a tableful they began to discuss the latest news.

    "At that moment some bald headed young man approached them and started scrounging, - relays Berezin, - Saying 'yankees give me 50 hryvnas, you're rich, aren't you'. They laughed brushing him off and soon stopped noticing him.

    Then having stricken the right moment the man punched a volunteer Robinson in the nose, who collapsed bleeding. Volunteer Brady came to his rescue, but fell unconscious from a kick in the face. Then the third volunteer intervened but was beaten as well... Before you knew the young man vanished, while the friends of the victims called for ambulance, which carried them to the hospital #5 in the town.

    As confirmed Igor Bobroff, medical superintendent : "Indeed, around 9:00 PM our team administered aid to three injurees. Their injuries aren't life threatening so we didn't require help from our regional colleagues being able to provide adequate treatment. Their hospitalization isn't needed. I believe the brawler has gotten himself into a serious trouble."

    According to our information the incident is already being investigated by the police, and in particular by the SBU (bureau of security service). As confirmed by the regional police department, such incident is registered. Interrogation of the foreigners was postponed until the arrival of the Embassy representatives. At the moment the victims accompanied by the Embassy representative give testimony at the police station. The judicial evaluation of the incident will be carried out on the basis of their testimony.

    By now the policemen have disposed videos made by CCTV cameras, installed in the night club.
    source 沃 廷辣鵄蓁 蒟瘉謌 瑕辮蒻琿驫蔘 碆謗迺辮鈞 蒟 菩竟齣 跏鞐 — 昼珥褌


    As reported by our own sources in the police, two foreigners were brutally beaten in one of Donetsk night clubs on May 7th. Citizens of the USA and Great Britain came to the city to teach English in the framework of preparations to Euro-2012 in Ukraine.

    The information about two battered foreigners was confirmed by the chief of Donetsk police department press-service Olga Pochkalova who told us:" On May 7th a precinct police station received a report from a hospital saying that medical aid had been administered to two foreign citizens. One suffered from a fractured hand, while the other from a jaw fracture."

    According to her one victim came from the US, while the other from England.

    On the grounds of the incident a criminal case was initiated, citing part 1 of the clause 122 of Ukrainian Criminal Code

    (battery, premeditated affliction of bodily injury of a medium degree, which is punishable by either up to 2 years of corrective labor, up to 3 years of freedom deprivation, or up to 3 years of imprisonment.)
    source В Донецке жестоко избиты граждане США и Великобритании. Приехали учить языку к Евро-2012 :: Остров

  2. #2
    Hanna
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    Who are the Peace Corps and what were they doing in Ukraine?
    Where they invited or did they invite themselves?

    My own experience of visiting Ukraine as a single woman was that I felt safe, people were nice and helpful, nobody tried to scam or mug me.

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    Почтенный гражданин LXNDR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Who are the Peace Corps and what were they doing in Ukraine?
    Where they invited or did they invite themselves?
    it's some kind of exchange program, here're their websites
    Peace Corps Ukraine - Home
    http://ukraine.peacecorps.gov/


    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    My own experience of visiting Ukraine as a single woman was that I felt safe, people were nice and helpful, nobody tried to scam or mug me.

    your experience may depend on the places you visited both geographically and recreationally, maybe timing as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Who are the Peace Corps and what were they doing in Ukraine?
    Where they invited or did they invite themselves?
    They apparently failed to get your personal approval.

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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    They apparently failed to get your personal approval.
    Dude, it says right in the story that several of the Peace Corps were Americans -- QED, they can't possibly have legitimate reason to be in Ukraine without Swedish approval!

    P.S. In the wikipedia article about the Peace Corps, the "Criticisms" section primarily notes that some have questioned the practical effectiveness of the Peace Corps in reducing poverty; others have claimed that at best it's an exercise in idealistic "feel-goodery", and at worst the well-intentioned efforts of its volunteers may be exploited for propaganda value by the US government and by dictatorial regimes. HOWEVER, there are no allegations that the Peace Corps is involved in anything truly sinister (e.g., that it's a front for covert ops by the CIA, or whatever).

    On the contrary, the Peace Corps is generally cited as a morally positive aspect of US foreign policy (even by those who doubt its effectiveness), and is generally approved of by left-leaning media outlets -- which could explain why it's never pinged on Hanna's radar; it doesn't provide the fodder she prefers...

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    Wow... The title makes it bigger than it is.
    It gives an impression of organized and repetitive attacks, while it's a stupid club fight (the mysterious "young man" vs three volunteers).

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    Почтенный гражданин LXNDR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka View Post
    Wow... The title makes it bigger than it is.
    It gives an impression of organized and repetitive attacks, while it's a stupid club fight (the mysterious "young man" vs three volunteers).
    wanna give a suggestion for a smaller title?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LXNDR View Post
    wanna give a suggestion for a smaller title?
    How about:

    "Small fight breaks out in disco".

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    Quote Originally Posted by zedeeyen View Post
    How about:

    "Small fight breaks out in disco".
    i don't know how big or small they were, attack is a neutral word meaning offensive action, it might as well be a verbal attack
    neither do i know anything about the 'fights', all i know about is 'beating'


    Quote Originally Posted by zedeeyen View Post

    (Deleted. L.)

    I also don't see how your link is related to Travel and Tourism

    (Deleted. L.)
    Last edited by Lampada; May 9th, 2012 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Telling other person what to do

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    Quote Originally Posted by LXNDR View Post
    i don't know how big or small they were, attack is a neutral word meaning offensive action, it might as well be a verbal attack
    neither do i know anything about the 'fights', all i know about is 'beating'
    Your title doesn't say "attack", it says "attacks", plural.

    The specific form of your title, which employs a familiar sort of journalistic shorthand, unambiguously implies a series or pattern of coordinated or at least related violent attacks against foreigners in Ukraine. It cannot mean anything else. You could show that headline to any native English speaker in the world and they would all make the same assumption - that there had been a series of attacks against foreigners in Ukraine.

    What none of them would expect is a story about a single mild incident involving 3 drunk people in a provincial night club.

    I'd love to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that it was just an unfortunate choice of words by a non-native speaker rather than an intentional exaggeration, but the fact that you've also posted the same story in other threads suggests otherwise.

    LOL, this is plain out stupid, we're not in the kindergarten, are we? But even there some level of parity should be maintained
    Give us some scoop about attacks on Ukrainian tourists in the US or UK motivated by them being Ukrainians, if we're in for childish games.
    If anything the disparity between hyperbolic sensationalist headline and mundane story is less absurd in my post than in yours.
    maxmixiv likes this.

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    Почтенный гражданин LXNDR's Avatar
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    i don't think i need anyone's approval on the title choice therefore the idea of giving me the benefit of the doubt is a tad presumptuous as neither am i guilty of anything nor do i owe anything to anybody other than accurate relation of information

    i agree i could have phrased it "two recent attacks" or "two unrelated attacks" if you so will then it'd sound less blown up, but still my title doesn't wrench the facts, attacks are attacks and recent is recent

    but this below is truly hilarious

    Quote Originally Posted by zedeeyen View Post
    3 drunk people
    man, you're reading into the story even more than i am and keep piling up information, let's see how it progresses

    i start to have a feeling that i should have posted it in the Fun Stuff instead LOL

    the only reason i posted a link in another thread is to let fortheether know about these stories


    Quote Originally Posted by zedeeyen View Post
    If anything the disparity between hyperbolic sensationalist headline and mundane story is less absurd in my post than in yours.
    so are unprovoked (in the first incident for certain) attacks on foreigners mundane story to you? the mere presence of foreigners in Ukraine especially in the deep province isn't mundane by far so how could the story they're involved in be mundane?

    or are you saying that it's brawls and scraps in clubs which are mundane in Ukraine?

    (Deleted. L.)
    Last edited by Lampada; May 9th, 2012 at 12:34 PM. Reason: Getting personal

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    Quote Originally Posted by LXNDR View Post
    i don't think i need anyone's approval on the title choice therefore the idea of giving me the benefit of the doubt is a tad presumptuous as neither am i guilty of anything nor do i owe anything to anybody other than accurate relation of information
    By posting stuff on the internet you are inviting a response. I gave you one, which was to point out that your headline did not match the content of the articles you posted.

    i agree i could have phrased it "two recent attacks" or "two unrelated attacks" if you so will then it'd sound less blown up, but still my title doesn't wrench the facts, attacks are attacks and recent is recent
    I concede that I hadn't realised the two articles referred to separate incidents - I clearly didn't read the garbled machine translation carefully enough - but that doesn't alter the fact that your headline implies something absolutely specific which simply isn't present in the articles.

    so are unprovoked (in the first incident for certain) attacks on foreigners mundane story to you? the mere presence of foreigners in Ukraine especially in the deep province isn't mundane by far so how could the story they're involved in be mundane?

    or are you saying that it's brawls and scraps in clubs which are mundane in Ukraine?
    Scraps in nightclubs are mundane in any country, regardless of the nationality of those involved. As stories, these are no more impressive than the speeding ticket one I posted earlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zedeeyen View Post
    By posting stuff on the internet you are inviting a response. I gave you one...
    granted, so this one is over with

    Quote Originally Posted by zedeeyen View Post
    I concede that I hadn't realised the two articles referred to separate incidents - I clearly didn't read the garbled machine translation carefully enough - but that doesn't alter the fact that your headline implies something absolutely specific which simply isn't present in the articles.
    thank you for the 'machine translation' complement LOL, i'm not claiming the translation is perfect, but it's clear it's not computer generated if you DO read it


    Quote Originally Posted by zedeeyen View Post
    Scraps in nightclubs are mundane in any country, regardless of the nationality of those involved. As stories, these are no more impressive than the speeding ticket one I posted earlier.
    you seem to obstinately ignore the fact that it's foreigners who were beaten, not the locals

    normally, out of sense of hospitality foreigners everywhere are treated with greater respect and precaution and can get away with more (within legal limits) having allowance of not understanding the local customs, especially in places where visitors from foreign lands are rarity, and because they are less protected staying away from home

    and so attacks on foreigners is a demonstration of extremely ill manners besides being a criminal offense

    that's so obvious i feel awkward having to spell it out


    (Deleted. L.)
    Last edited by Lampada; May 9th, 2012 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Personal remark

  15. #15
    Hanna
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia Peace Corps
    Current countries

    Eastern Europe and Central Asia Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Georgia, Macedonia, Moldova, Romania, Ukraine, Kyrgyz Republic, Turkmenistan[38]

    North Africa and the Middle East
    Does anyone know why the Peace Corps are not active in Russia or Belarus?

    How can they be active in Turkmenistan, which does not even allow non-CIS people enter as tourists, unless they with a guide at all times....

    Why are the Peace Corps not active in Western Europe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LXNDR View Post
    granted, so this one is over with

    thank you for the 'machine translation' complement LOL, i'm not claiming the translation is perfect, but it's clear it's not computer generated if you DO read it
    Sorry, but it really does read like a machine translation.

    you seem to obstinately ignore the fact that it's foreigners who were beaten, not the locals

    normally, out of sense of hospitality foreigners everywhere are treated with greater respect and can get away with more (within legal limits) having allowance of not understanding the local customs, especially in places where visitors from foreign lands are rarity

    and attacks on foreigners is a demonstration of extremely ill manners besides being a criminal offense
    All I see are two stories about fights in nightclubs, of the sort you could see in any nightclub in any country on any Saturday night. I fail to see how the nationalities of the victims elevates these stories in any way.

    I've certainly never been to your imaginary country where all foreigners are treated as honoured guests at all times.

    so are you ready to explain why you picked up on the title not even having given yourself labor to properly read the articles? and saying this

    how can you know whether the headline matches the content without carefully reading the latter? don't you think you contradict yourself on that?
    There's no contradiction. I read the articles well enough to see that they both referred to incidents in night clubs where some Brits and Seppos got themselves beaten up, but because they were so badly written I initially missed the fact that they referred to two different incidents.

    it seems my posting hurt you patriotic feelings
    Hah. Go on then, what patriotic feelings would those be?

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    Deleted. L.
    Last edited by Lampada; May 9th, 2012 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Personal remarks

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    I can't even figure out what you think you're trying to say now, so yes, it's probably best if you do stop.

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    Deleted. L.
    Last edited by Lampada; May 9th, 2012 at 12:12 PM. Reason: Getting personal

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