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Thread: Self-teaching to a proficient level

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    Self-teaching to a proficient level

    What are your thoughts on being able to get to an advanced stage in understanding Russian (or any other language) through self-teaching? Do individuals think this is possible or do you always need a teacher at some stage?

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    Властелин Valda's Avatar
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    безгранично. Всё что надо это мотивация (или самомотивация). Это вдобавок зависит ваших личностных характеристик, но если хватает мотивация не надо волноваться.
    "Особенно упорно надо заниматься тем, кто ничего не знает." - Като Ломб

    "В один прекрасный день все ваши подспудные знания хлынут наружу. Ощущения при этом замечательные, уверяю вас." -Кто-то

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    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    безгранично. Всё что надо - это мотивация . Это вдобавок зависит и от ваших личных качеств, но если хватает мотивации, не стоит волноваться.
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

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    Властелин Valda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iCake View Post
    безгранично. Всё что надо - это мотивация . Это вдобавок зависит и от ваших личных качеств, но если хватает мотивации, не стоит волноваться.
    Спасибо iCake. Интересно, когда тебе надоедать от меня?
    "Особенно упорно надо заниматься тем, кто ничего не знает." - Като Ломб

    "В один прекрасный день все ваши подспудные знания хлынут наружу. Ощущения при этом замечательные, уверяю вас." -Кто-то

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    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valda View Post
    Спасибо iCake. Интересно, когда тебе надоедать от меня?
    Интересно, когда я тебе уже надоем?

    If you do not like my corrections just tell me to stop and I will. Otherwise, you will never bother me
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

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    Властелин Valda's Avatar
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    Maybe you misunderstood! I meant, "I wonder when will you get tired of correcting me" As in, when you get tired of me, never the other way around.

    I love and highly appreciate your help as long as you're kind enough to provide it, that comment just meant to be funny
    "Особенно упорно надо заниматься тем, кто ничего не знает." - Като Ломб

    "В один прекрасный день все ваши подспудные знания хлынут наружу. Ощущения при этом замечательные, уверяю вас." -Кто-то

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    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valda View Post
    Maybe you misunderstood! I meant, "I wonder when will you get tired of correcting me" As in, when you got tired of me, never the other way around.

    I love and highly appreciate your help as long as you're kind enough to provide it, that comment just meant to be funny
    Russian is too frustrating language to learn so it's my pleasure to help. By the way I've never got offended by your post that's just a question to be sure. That's all
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

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    Почтенный гражданин diogen_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russianhogwash View Post
    What are your thoughts on being able to get to an advanced stage in understanding Russian (or any other language) through self-teaching? Do individuals think this is possible or do you always need a teacher at some stage?
    I’m not sure I fully understand what you mean when you write about “an advanced stage in understanding Russian”. The definition is to some extent vague for me. In case you wish to reach the pinnacle of C2 level*, it’s possible, feasible but takes a tiny little bit of time and effort. Ten years of “hard labor” might be enough to reach the stage, though it’s just a ballpark figure, based on what I’ve seen in the net over the last three years. If you want just to read effortlessly in Russian, you probably can reach the goal for about 3+/-1 years, given you can force yourself to learn about 15-30 new words per day without breaks and periods of procrastination. As for teachers, I believe you don’t need them at all. Internet can provide you with everything you may need to know about the Russian language, and no tutor can expedite dramatically the learning progress.

    *Common European Framework of Reference for Languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Властелин Valda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diogen_ View Post
    I’m not sure I fully understand what you mean when you write about “an advanced stage in understanding Russian”. The definition is to some extent vague for me. In case you wish to reach the pinnacle of C2 level*, it’s possible, feasible but takes a tiny little bit of time and effort. Ten years of “hard labor” might be enough to reach the stage, though it’s just a ballpark figure, based on what I’ve seen in the net over the last three years. If you want just to read effortlessly in Russian, you probably can reach the goal for about 3+/-1 years, given you can force yourself to learn about 15-30 new words per day without breaks and periods of procrastination. As for teachers, I believe you don’t need them at all. Internet can provide you with everything you may need to know about the Russian language, and no tutor can expedite dramatically the learning progress.

    *Common European Framework of Reference for Languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Иначе говоря, было бы получше как раньше начинаться заниматься в усвоении языка.
    "Особенно упорно надо заниматься тем, кто ничего не знает." - Като Ломб

    "В один прекрасный день все ваши подспудные знания хлынут наружу. Ощущения при этом замечательные, уверяю вас." -Кто-то

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    Почтенный гражданин diogen_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valda View Post
    Иначе говоря, было бы получше как раньше начинаться заниматься в усвоении языка.
    If I got you right, you mean, "Early bird catches the word." Correct?

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    Властелин Valda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diogen_ View Post

    If I got you right, you mean, "Early bird catches the word." Correct?
    Так точно!

    Although the second mouse gets the cheese
    "Особенно упорно надо заниматься тем, кто ничего не знает." - Като Ломб

    "В один прекрасный день все ваши подспудные знания хлынут наружу. Ощущения при этом замечательные, уверяю вас." -Кто-то

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    Почтенный гражданин diogen_'s Avatar
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    I see.The second mouse is not bird brain to eat s***

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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diogen_ View Post
    I see.The second mouse is not bird brain to eat s***
    Actually, the meaning of "the second mouse gets the cheese" is that the FIRST mouse gets no cheese because he's dead:



    Which is to say that the cheese is understood in this context to be the приманка ("bait") in a мышеловка ("mousetrap")!!

    Значит, мышка, которая рано встала с постели сдохнет в мышеловке; а мышка, которая проспала, украдёт сыр не в опасности.

    (I mean to say "The mouse who got out of bed early will die in the mousetrap; the mouse who overslept will steal the cheese without danger." -- corrections welcome, please!)

  14. #14
    Paul G.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throbert McGee View Post
    Значит, мышка, которая рано встала с постели сдохнет в мышеловке; а мышка, которая проспала, украдёт сыр не в опасности.
    Значит, мышка, которая рано встала с постели, сдохнет в мышеловке; а мышка, которая проспала, украдёт сыр без риска.
    Or "сможет украсть сыр без риска", "спокойно украдет сыр" ("спокойно" means "without troubles" in this context).
    You can't use "не в опасности" in the sentence, because it's a rare specific combination of the words. You should use "вне опасности" (= out of danger) in most cases. Like "находиться вне опасности", "она была вне опасности". Anyway, it also sounds awkward in the example with mice. If you must use "опасность", you can say like this: "а мышка, которая проспала, сможет украсть сыр без всякой (or какой-либо) опасности". "Опасность" is a bit abstract, so you should specify it.
    Throbert McGee likes this.

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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    Thanks very much, Paul! I was going back and forth between "без опасности" and "не в опасности", but neither sounded quite right. I should've thought of the phrase " без риска".

    And this conversation reminds me of a priceless clip from the BBC adaption of Terry Pratchett's novel "Hogfather":



    Note that it's clearly a mouse who dies here, but the "Death Of Rats" comes for him -- that's because the Death Of Rats is, despite his name, the official "Мрачный Жнец" для всех грызунов ("the Grim Reaper for all rodents")!

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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    On topic:

    What are your thoughts on being able to get to an advanced stage in understanding Russian (or any other language) through self-teaching?
    One point I would add to what has been said already is that prior experience with OTHER foreign languages, as well as the depth with which you understand the grammar of your own native language, can also be factors in how well you'll do with self-study.

    For example, noun-cases barely exist in English -- so if English is the only language you speak, you may have difficulty understanding through self-study alone just how the hell Russian discriminates noun-cases with ending-inflection.

    On the other hand, if you're an English speaker who has previously studied a foreign language like German or Latin (both of which have relatively complicated systems for noun-inflection and cases), you won't have so much difficulty getting used to the idea in Russian. Of course, the details of noun-case are different for Russian, German, and Latin, but the basic concept is the same (yet it's a concept that native English speakers haven't been prepared to think about).

    And if (like many/most native English speakers) you slept through all your English classes when the teacher was talking about "participles" or "the subjunctive mood", you might correspondingly have more confusion when you're trying to self-teach in Russian. But if you come to Russian with a basic gut-level understanding of what the "subjunctive" expresses, or how a "participle" is defined, that's a point in your favor.
    Говорит Бегемот: "Dear citizens of MR -- please correct my Russian mistakes!"

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    Почтенный гражданин diogen_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throbert McGee View Post
    Actually, the meaning of "the second mouse gets the cheese" is that the FIRST mouse gets no cheese because he's dead:



    Which is to say that the cheese is understood in this context to be the приманка ("bait") in a мышеловка ("mousetrap")!!

    Значит, мышка, которая рано встала с постели сдохнет в мышеловке; а мышка, которая проспала, украдёт сыр не в опасности.

    (I mean to say "The mouse who got out of bed early will die in the mousetrap; the mouse who overslept will steal the cheese without danger." -- corrections welcome, please!)
    Throbert,
    what a beautiful mice “guillotine” you’ve uploaded! It has my name on it! )))

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    Почтенный гражданин impulse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russianhogwash View Post
    What are your thoughts on being able to get to an advanced stage in understanding Russian (or any other language) through self-teaching? Do individuals think this is possible or do you always need a teacher at some stage?
    IMO, you can learn Russian on your own but you will loose alot of time. Because in Russian grammar, there are lots of concepts that will take lots of time for you to decipher on your own. But a teacher will tell about them instantly and you will learn much more fast. So, it is better to study with a native Russian teacher. Even 1-2 hours a week would be enough than the rest of the time you can study alone. I think it worths the money. Goodluck.

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    Увлечённый спикер
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    Самый лёгкий способ выучить язык -- когда рядом натив, как в детстве мама, постоянно исправляет твои ошибки. Я учусь сам по себе, читаю много на английском, слушаю плеер во время поездки на работу-с работы, -- спустя четыре года этого стало достаточно только для того, чтобы понимать, что мне говорят, и изъясниться на улицах англоязычной страны.
    Но продвинутый уровень -- это однозначно в языковой среде, где никто (это важно!) вообще ни слова не понимает по-русски. А ещё лучше, чтобы не хотели понимать.
    So... if you want to be a professional, learn from professionals. As you can easily notice, I can bearly connect Present Simple with another Present Simple, but for me even after 14 years of English it's still a misteryous land everything related to all those hadbeens, wasings and other hard grammar buildings of English... And I think it's not only because I'm lazy.
    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
    It's hard to get enough of something that almost works.

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    Властелин Valda's Avatar
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    Проблема то, что это не реально для большинство людей, вдруг идти на другую страну чтобы выучить язык. В сущности, фокус в том что можно уметь выучить язык в том месте где вы живёте. Так, у меня предложение по-другому -> языковой обмен. В целом, если Вы будете тратить хватает время изучении языка, используя все инструменты, Вы можете спориться в такой уровень.
    "Особенно упорно надо заниматься тем, кто ничего не знает." - Като Ломб

    "В один прекрасный день все ваши подспудные знания хлынут наружу. Ощущения при этом замечательные, уверяю вас." -Кто-то

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