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Thread: Frustrated with Russian cases...

  1. #41
    Подающий надежды оратор Nichole.'s Avatar
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    About imperfective/perfective: No really. Why isn't anybody believing me? I've read tge chapters on this particular subject in several, different Russian grammar books and it's not that hard for me to grasp. Actually pretty easy if you ask me. To answer your question, the answer would be "She didn't read the book." stressing if she didn't read through it completely or she just didn't read it at all. Quite simple if you ask me, not to sound pompous or anything.

    About cases: As much as cases seem like the most *enter 20 curse words of your choice here* thing in the history of languages (next to English spelling, and how we haven't had a modern spelling reform yet because we're too lazy), I have to learn them. Cases are needed for me to be understood, but that doesn't mean I don't think they're complete BS... because I hate them.
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  2. #42
    Властелин
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    Ablative is the most complicated case because it consists of three old cases: instrumental, locative and ablative (separative) itself. The last function is acomplished by Genenetive in Russian. Compare prepositions: ex, ab and de with ablative in Latin and от, из, с (спрыгнуть с дерева) with genetive in Russian.
    Она не читала means 'She has never started reading' Она не прочитала means 'she has not finished reading'
    Может быть, перейдём на русский язык?

  3. #43
    Почтенный гражданин Demonic_Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nichole. View Post
    About cases: As much as cases seem like the most *enter 20 curse words of your choice here* thing in the history of languages (next to English spelling, and how we haven't had a modern spelling reform yet because we're too lazy), I have to learn them. Cases are needed for me to be understood, but that doesn't mean I don't think they're complete BS... because I hate them.
    I really think you're overreacting to be honest, yes they are difficult and annoying, but no they are not entirely useless and there is generally some logic to how they're used (although sometimes the logic seems unfathomable). Because word order in Russian is flexible, cases are needed to show how the words relate to one another. A Russian speaker learning English might as well complain, "the specific word order in English is useless, why do I have to learn it?" but they'd be missing the point. Of course it's not useless, it's just another way of showing the relationship between words. As for English spelling, yes it is definitely annoying, but again it's not entirely useless, as it can help to show the etymology of words.

    And I still think you're underestimating how difficult perfective/imperfective verbs can be sometimes, but you seem intelligent so perhaps you've just grasped the concept better than me. I think the main things I find difficult about it are firstly that imperfective verbs don't always correspond perfectly (no pun intended) with their perfect forms, and vice-versa. You sometimes get an imperfective verb with two perfective forms with subtly different meanings, or an imperfective which has no perfective form, or a perfective with no imperfective, etc. And there's also the seeming complete randomness about how to actually make a perfective form out of an imperfective (do I add a prefix or take away a syllable? Should I prefix it with по- or с- or some other prefix? Or, in the case of «покупать», should I in fact remove the по- in order to make it into the perfective «купить»?) And, before you've even started to think about what the appropriate prefix should be, there are also some situations where you don't know if the action has been completed, etc.
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  4. #44
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    Падежи - формальная вещь: определённый предлог или глагол требуют определённого падежа. Виды глаголов гораздо труднее для понимания и часто требуют индивидуального подхода.

  5. #45
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    English Grammar for Students of Russian

    Has anyone used this book? Would you recommend it for Nichole's particular difficulties? I used the version for Latin students years ago and it was a boon.

    Amazon.com: English Grammar for Students of Russian: The Study Guide for Those Learning Russian (English grammar series) (9780934034210): Edwina Jannie Cruise: Books#_

  6. #46
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    The cases aren't too daunting, in my opinion - of course, you get frustrated every once in a while when you're first learning them, it feels impossible, you get fed up. It's all very natural.

    But eventually, they'll start clicking. Trust me. And it does require some knowledge of basic grammatical concepts to begin with ... and if you don't have a basic understanding of grammar to begin with, by the time you learn cases you'll have a firm conceptual grasp of grammar.

    Don't get disheartened! Don't give up. There is nothing unlearnable.

    What I find helped me make leaps and bounds with cases - and it's not too hard - is going through texts (whether you understand them or not makes ABSOLUTELY no difference) and just highlight, word for word, the case endings, and determine what they are and what relation they bear to the words around them. After doing this a few times you'll begin to recognize certain case endings automatically, until finally, voila, you'll have a good grasp of the cases, and you'll maybe have learned something else about Russian in the process.
    исправьте мои ошибки :P

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by oileanach View Post
    Has anyone used this book? Would you recommend it for Nichole's particular difficulties? I used the version for Latin students years ago and it was a boon.

    Amazon.com: English Grammar for Students of Russian: The Study Guide for Those Learning Russian (English grammar series) (9780934034210): Edwina Jannie Cruise: Books#_
    I was assigned this book, oileanach, when I took a semester of Russian at college. I didn't need it, but I would indeed recommend it if the person is starting with little or no working knowledge of basic grammatical concepts, such as direct objects, indirect objects, possessives, verbs, transitive vs. intransitive. For me, the book was a cakewalk, but I can see its particular value for people with no previous exposure to these necessary concepts.
    исправьте мои ошибки :P

  8. #48
    Почтенный гражданин Demonic_Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trzeci_Wymiar View Post
    I was assigned this book, oileanach, when I took a semester of Russian at college. I didn't need it, but I would indeed recommend it if the person is starting with little or no working knowledge of basic grammatical concepts, such as direct objects, indirect objects, possessives, verbs, transitive vs. intransitive. For me, the book was a cakewalk, but I can see its particular value for people with no previous exposure to these necessary concepts.
    Yeah I looked at the preview on amazon for that book and it all looked like pretty basic stuff (although admittedly the preview was mostly taken from the beginning of the book).
    Демоническая Утка
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