Thread: Чёрный юмор

a podcast about Russian humor (in English)

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Винни-Пух приходит к Пятачку и говорит:
- Я хочу открыть кооператив "Медок". Ты мне поможешь?
- Ух ты! Конечно! Мед будешь продавать?
- Нет, мед я буду покупать, а продавать я буду свинину.

I love this one!

I would point out that, as far as know, there are no analogous jokes in English about Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck, or about Tom and Jerry.

Possibly such jokes would be completely superfluous, because the original cartoons (especially from the "Golden Age" of the 1930s/1940s) were already full of sadistic violence, as well as sarcasm and sexual humor. See, for example, Tex Avery's famous parody of Красная Шапочка, from 1943:



So, possibly, the Винни-Пух cartoons became a natural inspiration for "underground" dark humor because the Soviet system of film censorship made it impossible for an animator like Tex Avery to flourish publicly?

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

So, possibly, the Винни-Пух cartoons became a natural inspiration for "underground" dark humor because the Soviet system of film censorship made it impossible for an animator like Tex Avery to flourish publicly?

You have a weird view on the USSR. That's not the censorship, it's just a philosophy of the Soviet society: little kids don't have to see any kind of violence. So the censorship is a secondary question.
P.S. If Americans like "sadistic" cartoons, because they grew up with them, they must like the shootings of kids too.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

You have a weird view on the USSR. That's not the censorship, it's just a philosophy of the Soviet society: little kids don't have to see any kind of violence.

So, Soviet animators were free to produce violent cartoons for adult audiences?

P.S. Please understand that in my view, there are different degrees of censorship. I'm not claiming that Tex Avery would have been sent to the Gulag if he had lived in the USSR; I'm claiming that the Soviet system would have prevented him from having any sort of distinguished career as a professional animator. He was a major success in the US because the American film industry was comparatively less censored than the Soviet film industry.

(There was definitely censorship of American movies, but the power of the censors was more limited, especially for smaller, low-budget studios working outside the Hollywood system.)

P.P.S. The history of film censorship in America is rather complicated, but the ru.wikipedia article about the so-called Кодекс Хейса ("Hayes Code") has a good introduction to the topic. One important point is that Hollywood studios often engaged in "self-censorship" because they feared economic boycotts organized by conservative religious groups -- it wasn't always because the state was censoring the studios with the force of official law. (State censorship occurred too, especially in WW2, but the censorship in the US was more often the result of "market forces".)

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

I'm claiming that the Soviet system would have prevented him from having any sort of distinguished career as a professional animator. He was a major success in the US because the American film industry was comparatively less censored than the Soviet film industry.

Does that mean that he had no real creative talent rather than playing on "adult instincts"?
It's hardly an achievement, I dare say.

Что это за самоцензура такая? Море крови и куча костей в каждом втором фильме. Хотя старые американские фильмы мне нравятся.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

So, Soviet animators were free to produce violent cartoons for adult audiences?

You are recommended to see old (1967-1971) Soviet cartoon series on The Jungle Book. There are enough violence (especially in comparison with Disney version) like cutting off dog's tail and epic massacre in the battle between wolves and dogs. And overall tone is quite dark and cruel.

It was intended for children. And children like it.

And there are no cruel anecdotes about Mowgli.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

So, Soviet animators were free to produce violent cartoons for adult audiences?

Well, in fact they could resort to such technique only if it was really necessary. For example, in the famous parody cartoon "Ograblenie po..." an American-styled robbery (the first section) is shown like a very bloody action (you should take a look obligatory, it's amusing).
Anyway, there are not so many cartoons for adult audiences. Just a few cartoons maybe.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

Anyway, there are not so many cartoons for adult audiences. Just a few cartoons maybe.

I think they are quite many, especially from the late USSR.
- Many science fiction cartoons: Контакт, Полигон (BTW about violence), Контракт etc. etc.
- Cartoons were the most free art area for experiments. Will you tell me that Ежик в тумане was intended for children? ORLY?
They can say "This is for children" and produce all kinds of psychodelic insanity.
- Aesopian language, humor, satire... Великолепный Гоша, Фильм-фильм-фильм, Остров сокровищ... For children? Well... for children too.

Вспомнилось вдруг:

Стоит мужик с табличкой "Карусел - 5 рублей". Нашлись желающие прокатиться, заплатили. Мужик расставил их вокруг себя и начал раскручивать над головой топор на верёвочке, и приговаривает: "Карусел, карусел, кто успел - тот присел!"

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Что это за самоцензура такая? Море крови и куча костей в каждом втором фильме. Хотя старые американские фильмы мне нравятся.

The "Hollywood Self-Censorship" that I was talking about existed from the early 1930s until (officially) the late 1960s -- although the "peak years" of this self-censorship was during the 20-year period of 1935-1955 (approximately). And in the early 1960s, Hollywood slowly became more daring and experimental, and well-established directors began to challenge the authority of the industry's censors, although the so-called "Hays Code" was still officially in place.

During the peak years of this self-censorship, there were many bestselling novels as well as stage dramas on Broadway dealing frankly with taboo subjects such as divorce, adultery, homosexuality, rape, and so forth. (Note that, in general, there were no government laws forbidding Broadway producers or book publishers from addressing such taboos!) But in the Hollywood "экранизации" of these books and plays, the details of the stories were often changed, as required by Hollywood's self-censorship code.

For instance, the unhappy couple decides at the end of the film to stay married (although they divorced in the Broadway original); or the adulterous character in the film is given an "Anna Karenina"-style suicide ending that wasn't in the play; or in one case, a homosexual man was turned into a heterosexual who happened to be Jewish (so that a 1945 novel about a homophobic murder became a 1947 movie about an antisemitic murder), etc.

But by the end of the 1960s, Hollywood studios abandoned this self-censorship code and instead developed a system of age-ratings for movies (originally G, M, R, X).

But by the end of the 1960s, Hollywood studios abandoned this self-censorship code and instead developed a system of age-ratings for movies (originally G, M, R, X).

И, кажется, преуспели в коммерческом смысле. Но душевные фильмы попадаются всё реже.

Dark humor was always extremely popular among (Russian) kids from age 5 and onwards. I think most dark jokes I know I've learned before 14. ))
Sometimes it was quite dark. There was a series of jokes about WW2 concentration camps, popular among younger kids (I told quite a few of them too). I remember just one, but the idea was the same, just details differed. The prisoners in these jokes were kids, too. Their remarks were always told in very high pitched voices.

Начальник концлагеря объявляет:
- Сегодня мы будем есть котлеты!
- Ура! Ура!
- Ты, ты и...
- А можено я?!!
- Хорошо, и ты. Пойдете на фарш.

Concentration camp commander makes an announcement:
- Today we'll eat meatballs!
- Yay!
- You, you and....
- Can I?!!
- Ok, and you.. will be minced meat.


A bunch of jokes about dystrophics were good conversation starters in kindergarten and first grades of primary school (and they were not even considered dark). Only now, when I think that they were echoes of famines, they seem a little morbid.

Дистрофики в палате играют в прятки. Одного ищут, и никак не могут найти. Наконец он выходит из-за швабры.
Остальные дистрофики:
- Так нечестно! Мы же догововаривались за толстыми предметами не прятаться!

(contd)

Later there were some pretty funny Stalin jokes. A classic one (told in a thick Georgian accent):

Сталин делает доклад. Вдруг в зале кто-то чихнул.
- Кто чихнул? (молчание)
- Первый ряд, встать. Расстрелять!
- Кто чихнул? (молчание)
- Второй ряд, встать. Расстрелять! (робкие апплодисменты)
- Кто чихнул? (снова молчание)
- Третий ряд, встать! Расстрелять! (бурная овация)
- Последний раз спрашиваю, кто чихнул?
- Я, я! Я чихнул! (рыдания)
- Будьте здоровы, товарищ

Stalin makes a speech. Suddenly someone sneezes.
- Who's sneezed? (Silence)
- First row, stand up! Execute them!
- Who's sneezed? (Silence)
- Second row, stand up! Execute them! (weak applause)
- Who's sneezed? (Silence again)
- Third row, stand up! Execute them! (standing ovation)
- I'm asking one last time, who's sneezed?
- Me, me! (sobbing)
- God bless you, comrade!

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

- God bless you, comrade!

This kind of humor wasn't in original.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

This kind of humor wasn't in original.

It means "Будьте здоровы!" А что по-твоему там должно быть?

Я знаю, но упоминание Бога и "товарища" Сталиным в одной фразе - достаточно крутой феномен.

Что поделаешь, если такое выражение. Из песни слова не выкинешь. По-моему, от этого шутка становится только ядренее. Хотя если найдется вариант перевода получше - можно и заменить, no problem.

А говорить, что этого не было в оригинале - все равно, что утверждать, что анекдот неправильно рассказан (например, должен был быть совсем другой конец).

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Я знаю, но упоминание Бога и "товарища" Сталиным в одной фразе - достаточно крутой феномен.

А что здесь крутого или странного? Сталин имел религиозное образование и был осведомленным в вопросах богословия. Поэтому упоминание Бога выглядит вполне естественно, придает даже некую глубину.
В любом случае "God" можно выкинуть, а оставить только "bless you".