Thread: Soft ж

Friendy made me remember, I think Баба-Яга could say [тихай]. But it's not a Moscow norm, it's just, as Friendy said, a way to show her peasant accent/origin.

And how do you pronounce it? With hard ж? [дрожжы] что ли?

Well, I say it like that.

P.S. (с) Жжжёра, подержи мой макинтощщщь.

[тихай] is old-fashioned pronuciation. I think most people in villages and towns pronouced unstressed -ий ending like -ой. And this is originally correct, because in stressed position we have -ой. The written-ий ending came from Ukranian spelling in the beg. of XVIII century. After the fight for literacy in 1920-30-s all newly literate peasants and workers tended to pronounce words as they were written, not as they were traditionally pronounced.

[тихай] is old-fashioned pronuciation. I think most people in villages and towns pronouced unstressed -ий ending like -ой. And this is originally correct, because in stressed position we have -ой. The written-ий ending came from Ukranian spelling in the beg. of XVIII century. After the fight for literacy in 1920-30-s all newly literate peasants and workers tended to pronounce words as they were written, not as they were traditionally pronounced.

True. Толстой vs. толстый.

Originally Posted by Rtyom

The Moscow norm is really weired. Things are pronounced like that:
[л'окк'ий] - лёгкий.

That's it.

\


I've never heard any Muscovite said [л'окк'ий]... i mean a grown-up one ... but surely it's a norm for 3-4-year-olds

Well, I'm not a Muscovite, I'm a minging double st petersburger, but I sure as heck say "lock-key" for лёгкий.

Originally Posted by Rtyom

What you refer to the soft pronunciation of 'дождь' is interweaved with two norms, the one being of Petersburg (accepted by most of us) and the other being of Moscow (soft 'ж').

I don't remember why they are called like that. Norms, I mean.

The Moscow norm is really weired. Things are pronounced like that:
[скварешник] - скворечник
[мойусъ] - моюсь
[тихай] - тихий
[л'окк'ий] - лёгкий.

That's it.

There are hardly any norms left, seriously speaking. In our family we say it this way:

[скварешник] - скворечник
[мойусь] - моюсь
[тихий] - тихий
[л'охьк'ий] - лёгкий.
[дрожж'и] - дрожжи
[дажди] - дожди
[дошть/дощщ] - дождь

As for me, I can't stand the pronunciation of [дощ(щ)].

Norms aren't stable. They always shift.

In what way do the pronunciations of soft and hard ж differ? Could someone describe (or record) it please? I can't possibly imagine how I could make my ж sound either harder or softer.

To make it softer, articulate from the initial position and lift the front part of your tongue to the hard palate. You have to keep your tongue in the position for a while with ж sounding and then make recursion.

Perfectly fitting words to train it are: дрожжи, вожжи.

Ah, thanks for the explanation.