Thread: Who were demonstrating in Moscow last weekend?

Could they actually win, or get any serious influence?

No, they can't. Their leaders understand that.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Secondly, who is the biggest "threat" to Edinaya Rossia? Is it the Liberals or the Communists?

Hanna, although Zhirinovsky's party is called "liberal democratic party of Russia" no one even in Russia called Zhirinovsky a liberal, even himself. Moreover, I think if anyone called Zhirinovsky a liberal in a discussion he could take it as an insult. (Term "liberal" gained negative meaning in Russia after so-called "liberal reforms" in early 90s although those reforms were not liberal at all, they were just robbing and totally criminal). Zhirinovsky registered and named his party in early 90s when the words "democratic" and "liberal" were extremely popular and beeing a populist he used them, but his rethoric always was ultra-populistic, nationalistic and pro-goverment in general. The party name became quite a brand since then so he decided to keep it I guess despite the terms became unpopular, he and his party members don't use the full name of the party because of that, only abbrеviation - LDPR. Communist is the main treat currently among registered candidates and I personally realising that, vote for them currently, just being pragmatic, not because I share all their views (I think, for example, that Stalin was a monster and horrible dictator and Zuganov says he was a great lider and the greatest hero ever). The main threat to Putin IMHO is well-educated middle class population of big cities who don't support Putin and EdRO in general, but unfortunately there is curently no "legal" political party or registered candidate in current president elections which presents that group. Yavlinsky could be called such a candidate at some extend, but Putin realised that and threw him off the race.

Thanks for the interesting information. I had not paid any attention to Zhirinovsky earlier.

And as for voting for the Communists, I understand your reasons - it's impossible to find a party that perfectly matches ones views... have to compromise with something... Maybe they are the lesser of three evils.
I am not too sure what to vote for myself.

The bit that I can't work out is how much Putin is, or isn't cheating or manipulating elections and media.
I can't make out whether I think he is okay, or bad. He sure says some funny things sometimes, but all that macho showing off is silly and exaggerated! It seems to me that Russia needs a strong person to create some order, for a limited period. But Putin hasn't managed to improve the big problems, like stopping corruption and improving the situation for really vulnerable people, creating jobs across the country etc. Or is he managing to move things in the right direction?

From what I have learnt here, and knew before I joined, it is certainly not surprising that Russians are suspicious against the democratic process and politicians.

Is a vote on Communists or the Liberal Democratic Party WASTED, or is there a representatational democracy (I think that's the word....) that means there is represenations of the smaller parties too, in the duma?

Originally Posted by Hanna

Is a vote on Communists or the Liberal Democratic Party WASTED, or is there a representatational democracy (I think that's the word....) that means there is represenations of the smaller parties too, in the duma?

In duma elections the voice is wasted if the party would not cross the 7% barrier (the voices for such a party are being distributed proportionally between the parties wich crossed 7% and the leading party gains the majority of them). In the last elections wich took place a couple of months ago EdRo gained 48% after voting (actually around 30% as many people believe, the rest are the results of manipulations) but recieved 51% seats in duma because of the voices for the parties those didn't pass the barrier. And the most laws wich duma votes for require simple majority, so EdRO can still do what they want and don't ask anyone. And in case they would need more support they always have Zhirinovsky (his party has about 15% of seats).

The main threat to Putin IMHO is well-educated middle class population of big cities

I think well-educated middle class is a threat to all leaders in all countries. That is why they try to keep us uneducated and poor

Originally Posted by Basil77

Ramil, I'm fully agree with you in this but please, tell us, why did you vote for him back then? I remember that you tried to explain your reasons but they seemed to me rather unconvincing.

Yes, that I did. But as I explained - I voted for him simply to cast my vote away so that it wouldn't have been cast for anyone else.
Still, at least some of his ideas are not too absurd as they might appear at the first glance. Besides, my views changed a bit since then and in December I voted for CPRF (I'm only hoping they will replace Zuganov eventually).

Originally Posted by Hanna

That's true! I too remember that you said you were going to vote for him, Ramil!

Secondly, who is the biggest "threat" to Edinaya Rossia? Is it the Liberals or the Communists?

You mean now? Putin, who else! United Russia discredited itself and now I feel that Putin will disband it.

Still, I feel I must enlighten you about sides in the current political struggle in Russia.
Putin is opposed not by those who waves 'Putin - go away' slogans on the streets. The *REAL* force who is trying to wrestle power from Putin is represented by these 'very nice' gentlemen (Medvedev was their candidate and a compromise Putin had to go for):

Oleg Deripaska



Suleyman Kerimov
ee022c81a207d0bddcda67afb07e3ccd.jpg

and Alisher Usmanov
Alisher_Usmanov_21_October_2009.jpg

they provide the finance

plus political wing:

Anatoly Chubais
popov1.jpg

Igor Shuvalov
picture--240.jpg

and Alexander Voloshin
KMO_089355_00458_2_t208.jpg

Those, on the streets - are just a crowd of extras.

Never forget that politics really is a game about money, not freedom, better living standards or patriotism. Never forget that!

Originally Posted by Ramil

You mean now? Putin, who else! United Russia discredited itself and now I feel that Putin will disband it.

Still, I feel I must enlighten you about sides in the current political struggle in Russia.
Putin is opposed not by those who waves 'Putin - go away' slogans on the streets. The *REAL* force who is trying to wrestle power from Putin is represented by these 'very nice' gentlemen (Medvedev was their candidate and a compromise Putin had to go for):

Oleg Deripaska



Suleyman Kerimov
ee022c81a207d0bddcda67afb07e3ccd.jpg

and Alisher Usmanov
Alisher_Usmanov_21_October_2009.jpg

they provide the finance

plus political wing:

Anatoly Chubais
popov1.jpg

Igor Shuvalov
picture--240.jpg

and Alexander Voloshin
KMO_089355_00458_2_t208.jpg

Those, on the streets - are just a crowd of extras.

Never forget that politics really is a game about money, not freedom, better living standards or patriotism. Never forget that!

I've always thought Putin is the oligarchs' pick and that's why he's had all his influence all the way, and still does.

I really don't like these Russian oligarchs. One is dodgier than the next! And why do they all go to England all the time? What's the connection? So in the past, the state owned everything in Russia... and now the oligarchs own everything in Russia instead! Is that really better.... If they've rigged the government too, then their takeover is complete - since it's clear that they already control the media. And it's interesting to note that some of the most parasitic capitalists on the European continent today, are people who grew up in the USSR.

Really interesting to hear about your voting strategy, Ramil!
Ok, so what's the 411 on Zuganov then? (American expression, just using it for fun... it means - what is the gossip & background information about him)

I mean, he's the major REAL opposition politican. I am guessing that Russian Communists don't want to turn back time, but have a modern version of Communism. How would you summarize that?

This said - I don't think communists can win an election in a country with a decent sized middle class, and where a large proportion of people own their own houses or flat. Communists can only win in poor countries, or if there is a revolution. That's what I think - but maybe Russia is the exception.

Sweden has the same setup with regards to a lower limit for getting into the parliament. 4% is the limit. In the past, there were some serious alternatives that people could vote for but now all parties are congregated in the middle and it practically doesn't matter what you vote for, you get the same anyway. In the UK, this process has been completed. It genuinely doesn't matter which party you vote for, both have the same process and there are only two parties, more or less.
The one difference that you can make is voting for a mayor of your city. Depending on who is the mayor, a few noticeble things actually change, like better public transport or rubbish collection.

I once heard Putin's St. Petersburg clan mebers have $130 billion summarily. Никаким либерастам-поцреотам столько и не снилось. And what I'm just curious about is whose clan could be the second richest in Russia.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Really interesting to hear about your voting strategy, Ramil!

I won't go. I think Putin will win without my help and other candidates - there's just no one worthy enough. Really, compared to them all, Putin *IS* a better choice.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Ok, so what's the 411 on Zuganov then? (American expression, just using it for fun... it means - what is the gossip & background information about him)

I think he's afraid. He won the elections in 1998 but was too scared to oppose Yeltsin and gave up. Besides, he's being less a communist and more a politician. I just think he's now being manipulated by other leaders of opposition.

Originally Posted by Hanna

I mean, he's the major REAL opposition politican.

See above about who's *REAL*

Originally Posted by mishau_

I once heard Putin's St. Petersburg clan mebers have $130 billion summarily. Никаким либерастам-поцреотам столько и не снилось. And what I'm just curious about is whose clan could be the second richest in Russia.

Этот клан зовётся ВаляТаняТоля. Есть мнение (tm) что Вова решил подвинуть ВалюТанюТолю и перестал соблюдать договорённости, они сначала запилили ему Медведа, а теперь ещё и бело-оранжевый презерватив на площадях надули

and where a large proportion of people own their own houses or flat.

That's probably true for Russia.

He won the elections in 1998 but was too scared to oppose Yeltsin and gave up.

You mean 1996?
I think the barrier is 5 %, not 7.

Originally Posted by Marcus

You mean 1996?

Yes, 1996

Originally Posted by Ramil

Really, compared to them all, Putin *IS* a better choice.

What do you think of Prokhorov?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

What do you think of Prokhorov?

Oh, this one is caring for the country and for the people the most.

Originally Posted by Ramil

Oh, this one is caring for the country and for the people the most.

And why exactly Putin does it better?

Вмешаюсь. Прохоров - агитатор 60-часовой рабочей недели. Не надо ему доверять.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

And why exactly Putin does it better?

All candidates are bad and that's Putin's fault. All oppositional candidates (among those who's independent from Putin) have made too many promises for too many rather disgusting persons in order to become candidates. And some of these promises thei will be obliged (or forced) to honor (and I'm afraid I wouldn't like the consequences all that much). Putin saw to that noone had the chance of becoming a real independent candidate. The only more or less independent one is Putin himself.
It saddens me to think that Russia really is a de-facto monarchy now still I don't see any other choice.