Thread: 'Victory' in Tripoli, Libya. A big lie?

Originally Posted by nulle

Yes, and Baltic people lived happily under USSR occupation.

You're probably a very young person who didn't live back in the USSR era. Nevertheless you would be surprised to know that I actually know a number of ethnic Luthuanians who wouldn't agree with your sarcasm.

Libyans never had control in the first place - oil was under Gaddafi's control.

Man, ordinary people had better social allowances in Libya than they have in Sweden. Take your head out of the TV box.

Just like natural resources of USSR was not USSR people's property, but were exploited by communist elite building useless shit like nuclear weapons.

Again, you're probably too young to know, but people did live far more happier in USSR than they are now.

They did not suddenly changed - they used opportunity when such things happened in whole region and neighbouring dictatorships could not help them, because they had problems of their own.

A number of mercenaries were paid by the State Dept. to organize this so called 'rebellion'.

Just like Warsaw pact countries overthrew their communist governments when they saw that there will not be backing from USSR anymore.
Latvians did not suddenly decide to leave USSR for example - you might not know this, but armed resistance against Soviet occupation happened till 1956 - more than 16 years.

Yeah, there were 3.5 Latvians who opposed.

Well I hope that people of Libya will do it, not some bloodthirsty dictator anymore.

I hope Gaddafi kills all the rebelious leaders and send their heads to Washington in a decorated bucket.

Originally Posted by nulle

useless shit like nuclear weapons.

lol

Originally Posted by mishau_

Originally Posted by nulle

useless shit like nuclear weapons.

lol

Ага, тролль, такой тролль.

Originally Posted by Hanna

...Suddenly the rebels are offering a number of million dollars for the capture of Khaddaffi... Who gave them the millions.
And who will set up a new government there now?

western/Nato countries froze over $100 billion of Libyan assets, and apparently they are using it in this war. Nato actions appear to violate treaties/position against war of aggression.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression
.Nuremberg trials were important for using this concept. Nato are not accountable to anyone.
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Originally Posted by Hanna

What do you mean by that?

Push healthy scepticism or cynicism too far and it becomes indistinguishable from drooling gullibility.

Жжешь, Рамиль! =)

Did they film this in India too?
Tripoli awash in guns, rumors amid Gadhafi hunt - CNN.com

Nevertheless you would be surprised to know that I actually know a number of ethnic Luthuanians who wouldn't agree with your sarcasm.

Of course - chekists and communist party members lived better - that's for sure.

It's all a lie, Nulle. Every single media outlet in the world, from FOX News to The Guardian and from Al Jazeera to Mainichi Shimbun, even those that are vocally opposed to NATO's involvement in Libya, are all really part of a giant, super-efficient NATO-controlled conspiracy to make the world believe that the peaceful garden paradise of Libya was really a tinpot dictatorship descending into civil war so that western countries can access all the oil they already had contracts to drill for anyway. Or something.

Thank God we have the notoriously reliable Russian tabloid press to give air time to the two or three people on the planet who really know what's going on!

Soviet years have trained us to take anything Russia publishes with caution anyway.

Why Russian? Did Latvian newspapers say something completely different that time?

Not to mention the fact that half the country is in pieces by now. Infrastructure, public buildings etc.

As I said - Gaddafi had a choice - to resign (like his neighbours) or start a bloodbath. He chose the second option.
Egypt and Tunis dictators chose the first and their countries suffered relatively minimum damage.

You are for it. You complain about foreign occupiers of your country and then applaud this.

Thanks to "foreign occupiers" British, Poles and Estonians - Latvia is an independent country (with current borders at least) now and not "Russian republic" like Tatarstan.
That's why I'm - "pro western".
Let's not pretend that there is "multi polar world" where everyone have good life in different way.
There is not.
There is "Western world" which is democratic and respect human rights.
And then there is the rest of the world where quality of life is (much) lower and there is no or little democracy and human rights are not respected.
That's why this is BS:

average moslem and the average Libyan in particular is no lover of the West

Of course they want human rights and democracy, and not dictatorship and oppression.
Soviet propaganda was full of this: "We will achieve prosperity in different way than rotting capitalists" - it turned out that only communist elite lived in prosperity, and not majority of people like in the west.
But officially "soviet people" were not "lovers of the rotting western bourgeois capitalism". But secretly they listened to "Voice of America" (which was filtered using special expensive noise generators) and were in ectasy if they got anything from the "rotten western world".

Arab spring to me looks really similar to events in Eastern Europe in early 90s - and that's why it would be extremely hypocritical of me to say that they better live under dictatorships and democracy is not for them.

Hanna - were you against Baltics joining EU too?

Originally Posted by nulle

Hanna - were you against Baltics joining EU too?

No of course not. It's their decision if they want to be in the EU or not. In fact, I campaigned FOR the Eastern Europeans joining the EU, back in the mid 1990s, in a youth movement that was popular at the time. A lot of people were saying "there are too many problems there, too much criminality etc, and it does not fit with the agricultural policy." I felt that was irrelevant, that it would be grossly unfair to exclude Eastern Europe on any of those grounds, and completely against the principles of the EU. This movement was called "Paneuropa", and it had a big part in the changing of public opinion about this across Western Europe. I am all in favour of the EU as long as it helps Europeans and doesn't become some kind of little NATO muppet.

I was against the Baltics joining NATO though, simply because that means having American war ships crusing around in the Baltic Sea, and whatever else they might want to get up to on the shore of the Baltic Sea which is extremely important to Sweden, and to me, as I grew up on its shore. The US has always wanted a foot in there, but they couldn't in the past, due to the USSR and the fact that Sweden and Finland are neutral. But because of the Baltics, now they can come and go as they please.

As far as I am concerned, American warships are no improvement to those of the USSR - and they, at least, actually had a shore to this sea, which the US does not.

A good retrospective of what's happenning in Libya here:
Пишет Вам боец Красной Армии Д. Вэйдер (D. Vader)... - Ливия: ситуация в Триполи (ретроспектива)
Unfortunately - in Russian and I've no time to translate.

Take a good look at the photographs there. Notice the snow white T-Shirts of the so-called 'loyalist prisoners'. There were several days of hard fighting, remember?
And generally - take a look at these photos - I don't know what's really happenning in Libya but all I can tell - all photos is complete BS.

Those who believe in democratic ideals will especially like the fact that all loyalist soldiers found in military hospital were executed. Well, they were against democracy anyway. Some of them were handcuffed which indicates that they were executed, not killed in combat.

I don't believe that anything good can be done basing on lie, big lie and complete BS. I don't believe in such democracy. I don't believe that all these bodies is for the good democratic future of Libyan people. Who's next? Sirya, Iran, Belarus, Russia?

Democratic ideals triumphs in Libya. True democracy wins! How could I doubt that!

Gaddafi's a monster, you say? Watch this:
www (dot) obamaslibya (dot) com

(warning: not to be seen by children. Blood, violence, very graphic - I wouldn't have posted it here at all, but some stubborn people from this thread should see this).

Libya had the highest literacy rate in Africa, ~88%. Soon to be half that. Democratic Shariah? LIBYA’S WAR FOR THE ABAYA
. oops, mistake. Found video says 83% literacy. Highest standard of living in Africa. Free health care.
.
Was Libya a direct democracy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamahiriya
."The Libyan government states that Libya is a direct democracy without any political parties, governed by its populace through local popular councils and communes (named Basic People's Congresses). Official rhetoric disdains the idea of a nation state, tribal bonds remaining primary, even within the ranks of the military of Libya.".
.
.http://www.youtube.com/user/hhhpets#p/u/2/lXLQAUUpJwU
.Libya's unique form of government. http://www.youtube.com/user/hhhpets#p/u/1/lYe-s7FF3dg
http://www.youtube.com/user/hhhpets#p/u/7/TjrBzIv7zis. What is the truth?

I want to thank you all for discussing the situation, because the controversy has prompted me to look more and more into this. Very confusing, and very interesting.


.

Originally Posted by Seraph

Libya had the highest literacy rate in Africa, ~88%.
.

That's the kind of thing I was thinking about when I said it was a respected country.
The healthcare was good too.
Now everything is in pieces - they are doomed to at least a decade of chaos until things are as good as they were before.
They'll be drawn into the aid, military base, governmental "advisors" cycle...
I don't think Khaddaffi is great either, but total revolution, chaos and bombing the whole country to pieces.....?????? I doubt that's what the majority would have wanted.

It was a coup by the Western Europe/ NATO/CIA/KGB/Mossad/Zionist Jew Bankers-Media of the New World Order!

Not really. That's what I read in the RT forums though.

Quadaffii was playing to his own interests and was a dictator that made Libya possible because it was a bunch of small tribes that had little idea or interest of the rest of the planet. He slapped them around and made himself Boss. Modern Libya was born. The People got tired of his shiat.

It's not an American thing, it's more European. They were the former Colonialists Masters of the proletariat! It was the Italians!

It was like a spy movie. Europeans, Americans, Russians, Chinese, Arabs, Africans, Muslims and a little Chavez walking the same streets.

Don't even say Russia wasn't heavily involved in Libya. BILLIONS of rubles in arms (I see Kalashnikovs, not M-16s; РПГ-7, not any US or NATO variant. SCUDS were found.) and BILLIONS more in development contracts.

I wish them well.

Don't even say Russia wasn't heavily involved in Libya. BILLIONS of rubles in arms (I see Kalashnikovs, not M-16s; РПГ-7, not any US or NATO variant. SCUDS were found.) and BILLIONS more in development contracts.

You can guess three times from where comes propaganda about good Gaddafi and bad NATO occupants.

Gaddafi's a monster, you say? Watch this:
www (dot) obamaslibya (dot) com

It is war - and nasty shit happens - I hope these war criminals will be prosecuted afterwards.
(Deleted. L. We do believe that nasty shit happens. If it's "too graphic" let's not bring it here, please).
Look what happens in Russia in "peace time". Net is full of videos like these - warning - graphic and disgusting content.

www (dot) obamaslibya (dot) com

then delete this too :P

Originally Posted by nulle

(Deleted. L. We do believe that nasty shit happens. If it's "too graphic" let's not bring it here, please).
Look what happens in Russia in "peace time". Net is full of videos like these - warning - graphic and disgusting content.

I'm curious what was that about )

I'm curious what was that about )

Video made by Russian neo nazis - how they killed two persons "with caucasian looks".
One was shot, and other's head was cut off.
documentingreality, liveleak, etc is full of videos like that.
But, that's probably OK there - Putin himself said that they need to be beaten in toilets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_PdY...eature=related