1) Я видел программы русского телевидения из Сирии, в которых сирийцы пытаются докричаться до мира при помощи нашего телеканала. Потому что нет других средств.
2) Аль Джазира - по вашим понятиям это образец независимости и объективности? А по-моему, нет.
Вот Вы на меня уже и досье завели. Ну, точно агент. Там стоит пометка "годится для вербовки"?Originally Posted by Crocodile
I'm not sure this situation is very clear because there is so much lying, manipulation and media spin going on.
I just thought of presenting a point and you can beat it down or whatever you want. I am not interested in getting involved in another argument. But, I did come across someplace claims that Turkey was arming and/or training Syrian rebels and that the shelling was a response or reaction to this. So, just to speak on the hypothetical, what if this is part of the reason. It's not being reported. But, if Assad does try to claim this, then this should be included in any discussion.
It's peculiar that Syria (as bad and rogue a state as it is) cannot be left to its own devices in a civil war and when Iran is supposedly helping, it's condemned, too.
Yet, the U.S. can bomb the crap out of other countries AND INTERFERE with impunity. It's always one side and the media always portrays the U.S./NATO or whoever as one that cannot be beneath anything whereas it's Iran/Syria/whoever they want as the guilty one. It's funny how everyone immediately takes it as gospel.
Anyway, carry on...
And I would appreciate to consider that. But, at this time, there's nothing coming from Damascus that addresses the shelling. We are left with making up any reason we see fit.
But, I think you missed the point of my conversation with Юрка. He actually claims that the shelling was done by the Syrian opposition to provoke Turkey/NATO and not by the Syrian Army (whatever justified reason they might have).
No, I noticed that. Well, from what I could translate. I think it's plausible but I am not making any conclusions yet. But, then questions have to be answered, right? Do they have the firepower etc. Because, I think it's pretty easy to answer the why. Anyway, I have not investigated or researched this topic sufficiently. I thought it is interesting that other nations are not allowed to intervene but the U.S./NATO can do as they see fit.
Well, we all know, whoever has the might, has the right. It's not a big deal to find the justification.
Could you be kind enough a provide a link to Russian media which report that Syrian government officially denounce the shelling?
Your approach "А чей это сайт?.." implies you don't believe any media could be objective and independent. Which is ok as long as we have what the other party has to say, so we could compare. Al Jazeera has a long-established history of publishing anti-Western and anti-US opinions, so I'm not sure what you want to say here.
Крокодил, мы с вами стратеги или бухгалтера?
Неужели что-то зависит от одной ссылки?
Восток - дело тонкое. На Востоке не всегда стереотип поведения совпадает с тем, что ожидают в западном филиале западного мира. Они извинились перед Турцией, а Вы: "Неееет! Где осуждение?!! У нас принято осуждение!".
А извинение в данном случае - это более высокий и мужской поступок, чем осуждение. Извинение означает не перенос ответственности на кого-то, а признание ответственности за всё, что происходит на территории своей страны. Даже если стреляли бандиты, с которыми Сирия борется.
Осуждение - это более мелкий поступок, который относится скорее к сфере внутренней политики: поймали и осудили. А извинение - это больше подходит к международным делам.
У вас страна молодая и поэтому очень смутное представление о морали в международных делах. Иногда полная "каша". А на Востоке этикет в таких делах на высшем уровне. Учитесь, а не учите.
Если брать аналог из человеческих отношений, то на Востоке мужчина извинится за плохой поступок своей жены, но не скажет "я её осуждаю, не имею с ней ничего общего, бейте её кто хочет".
И ещё аналог: большевики заставляли отрекаться от родственников, публично осуждать их. Все должны были быть как Павлик Морозов. И ваше мышление (наших эмигрантов из СССР) похоже на большевистское.
Ah, now you're talking! They not only apologized but took the responsibility for the shelling! Syria Formally Apologizes for Cross-Border Shelling into Turkey -- News from Antiwar.com
Let's put aside the question of had it happen again despite the apologies since October 4, and focus on our main topic. So, if you admit Syria apologized that means you admit Syria was responsible and not the Syrian opposition!! So, what were all those previous posts of yours about? Just to confuse us? Propaganda, my friend, is so propaganda..Turkey’s deputy prime minister on Thursday said Syria has admitted it was responsible for the shelling that killed five civilians in Turkey on Wednesday and has formally apologized for the deaths. The regime of Bashar al-Assad not only issued a formal apology, says Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Besir Atalay, but it reassured the United Nations that “such an incident will not occur again.”
I don't know who are you, but I'm just a simple-minded crocodile.
Well, you mentioned Assad's government used Russian media allegedly [due to the information war of the West against Syria] there were blocked to deliver official message they are not responsible for the shelling. So, yes, a couple of links to support what you said would be enough. Unfortunately, you haven't provided any. Which makes me think there's none and you said the things you said just for making up some argument. Demagogy, my friend, is so demagogy..
I might have tentatively accepted what you say if I hadn't known a bit about the Middle East. Actually, among the people it works a totally different way: they can say whatever, regardless if that's true or false, just to convince you at this very moment. Not thinking about the future and the consequences. Words do not matter. Words mean nothing.
Now, when talking about the foreign affairs, both Syria and Turkey comply with the Vienna Convention of Diplomatic Relations. Hence, their foreign affairs are guided by the same exact principles as the other countries, including Canada.
Unfortunately, that seems like demagogy to me. We're talking about the international affairs, which have rather strict rules. Also, like I said earlier, I'm not sure you know the Middle Eastern culture well enough. Maybe, you made that conclusion when talking with Osetians or Chechens. So, be it known to you those are rather different cultures, even though they are all Muslim countries. Whatever works in the mountains does not necessarily work in the desert and oasis (and the other way around).
Assume you're right. So, what holds Syria from doing the smaller thing if it had already done a bigger one? Maybe, just to satisfy small and shallow creatures like myself [and as a side effect some not-so-manly Vienna Diplomatic Conventions].
Ok.. here propaganda goes again.. At least, he could say it was his wife and not him! And that he does not like either what she did! How difficult was that?
Besides, I can do the same thing as yours appealling to emotions, but the other way around. Following your analogy with a wife, it's going to be a wife which the super-manly man of yours is killing and torturing. So, the wife knocks on the common wall with the neighbors in a desperate gesture of: "Please, help me, this guy is killing me!" and the framed picture falls down on the other side of the wall. The angry neighbours are coming: "Why are you knocking on the wall?" The super-manly man replies: "Oh, I apologize, it was me, I take the responsibility. This will not happen again." How attractive that super-manly man of yours is now?
The next time you're invited to the Vienna Convention of Diplomatic Relations, tell them those very things.
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