Thread: Stephen Cohen. Distorting Russia. How the American media misrepresent Putin...

Originally Posted by it-ogo

... to ensure the loyality of Russian population to the Mr. Poo personally thus to preserve his power. ...

Я в шоке от некоторых фамилий: Официальный сайт Министерства культуры
Список открытый, можно прослеживать, кто ещё подпишется. Сейчас 103 человека.
Людей жалко: это ж под каким давлением нужно жить.

PS. Уже 104. Михалковых никого нет, Пугачёвой, Жванецкого, Дмитрия Быкова, Ефремова.

Originally Posted by Lampada

PS. Уже 104. Михалковых никого нет

За Михалкова не переживай! Этот.... режиссёр, как и его папа покойный, всегда колебался исключительно вместе с колебаниями генеральной линии партии.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

What makes you think you can judge about people's loyalties in Ukraine? I am the only person you know here at forum from Eastern Ukraine, being Russian speaking and even ethnic Russian and I made my position clear. But you prefer to ignore the only direct evidence you have. I say: one should not be an intellectual giant to understand that the only purpose of invasion and most actions of Mr. Poo in Ukraine is to worsen our lives to ensure the loyality of Russian population to the Mr. Poo personally thus to preserve his power. And we don't need to listen to any "propaganda" for that - enough to have your everyday morning portion of chauvinism from conversations to Russian ctizens about Ukraine here at forum.

Ok, I understand. I didn't know that you were from Eastern Ukraine. You never mentioned where you live, that I can recall. I don't read all the posts in Russian, it takes me too long. I thought you didn't want to say where you lived, and/or that you lived in some other part of Ukraine.

I totally respect your view, and in light of what you said, it seems that Russian TV is not reflecting the view of people in Eastern Ukraine in a balanced way.

They make out that practically everyone hates the new government in Kiev and are pro Russia. All you see is people with Russian flags and supporting Gubarev. While European media pretends that Eastern Ukraine doesn't exist. If you have flicked through Russian channels recently, you know what I mean.

My views were based completely on what I saw on Russian TV, can't understand everything they say, and it seems that I let myself be mislead!
Maybe Russian TV only covers the pro-Russian rallies and there are other rallies they ignore.

You know I respect your views, so this will make me re-think.

If you have the time, would you mind explaining:

1) In your town/city what do most people think. Same as you, or something different?
2) What would you like to see happening right now? In Kiev, in Moscow, in your own city and in Crimea?

Originally Posted by Hanna

1) In your town/city what do most people think. Same as you, or something different?
2) What would you like to see happening right now? In Kiev, in Moscow, in your own city and in Crimea?

Before Crimean invasion most people (like I am) were passively unhappy to both Yanukovich and protesters. After the runaway of Yanukovich people were happy that he is lost but quite sceptical about the protesters and the temporary government. But nobody was really afraid or angry like it was in 2004 - the situation is not exactly something new. Most common position is "all of them are bastards". Russian invasion changed much. For me it was unexpected: for some reason I was sure that we are safe form that side like you feel sure now that Sweden is safe from foreign invasion. Now most people afraid of the possible war and disorders - that is the most common emotion. We have some active supporters of the Kiev protesters but they are not the majority. What we have not is an imaginary loyalty to Russia. Most people understand well that Putin is merely a bastard resolving his own problems on our account. Most people are not ready to burn Russian tanks but we don't expect anything good from the East and we don't need a foreign military supports against the rest of Ukraine whatever our disagreements are. That is an internal business.

I don't want to discuss what I'd like to see happening somewhere else... Maybe my emotions are too strong or I am too evil, and anyway I don't want to be accused in extremism. Let us say I don't wish anything good to Russia now.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Before Crimean invasion most people (like I am) were passively unhappy to both Yanukovich and protesters. After the runaway of Yanukovich people were happy that he is lost but quite sceptical about the protesters and the temporary government. But nobody was really afraid or angry like it was in 2004 - the situation is not exactly something new. Most common position is "all of them are bastards". Russian invasion changed much. For me it was unexpected: for some reason I was sure that we are safe form that side like you feel sure now that Sweden is safe from foreign invasion. Now most people afraid of the possible war and disorders - that is the most common emotion. We have some active supporters of the Kiev protesters but they are not the majority. What we have not is an imaginary loyalty to Russia. Most people understand well that Putin is merely a bastard resolving his own problems on our account. Most people are not ready to burn Russian tanks but we don't expect anything good from the East and we don't need a foreign military supports against the rest of Ukraine whatever our disagreements are. That is an internal business.

I don't want to discuss what I'd like to see happening somewhere else... Maybe my emotions are too strong or I am too evil, and anyway I don't want to be accused in extremism. Let us say I don't wish anything good to Russia now.

Thanks, that was really interesting.
I know you don't visit the forum to discuss politics, mainly, so it's nice that you made an exception when your area is in the focus of current events.

And I don't think anybody has the right to accuse you of extremism in regards to events in your own country!

When you say "invasion", do you mean those guys with "unmarked" uniforms, in Crimea? Or something else?

I was so annoyed with the way Western media reports this, that I turned to Russian TV. I guess I was too busy trying to understand what they were saying, to be critical... I really thought their pictures of Eastern Ukrainians waving Russian flags more or less showed the full picture. Your post made me see that I was taken in by a misleading presentation.

Who is Gubarev and what happened with him? What is your view of him and why do some people like him - he's an oligarch!?

If your choice is between customs union with Russia and the "Eurasian Union" that Putin wants..... or EUs promises about closer co-operation and possible membership --- which do you prefer, and why?

Originally Posted by Hanna

Who is Gubarev and what happened with him? What is your view of him and why do some people like him - he's an oligarch!?

If your choice is between customs union with Russia and the "Eurasian Union" that Putin wants..... or EUs promises about closer co-operation and possible membership --- which do you prefer, and why?

Gubarev is a kind of clown who used temporary disability of authorities to make a performance. Some people can say that he is a kind of traitor who support foring military invasion, but I believe he is just an insane freak. I don't know who loves him. Maybe some guys enjoying disorders and revolutions? Well, they say, if Kiev enjoys revolution why can't we? Let's play! Don't afraid, nobody will go against us as they afraid of Russian militaries on the border!

Well, as for "Eurasian Union" I understood well the actions of Yanukovich. Ukraine needed money immediately to save from being bankrupt and Yanukovich took money from Putin while Europe proposed no immediate income and questionable long-term effects. But now I believe we should avoid any kind of cooperation with Russia as it is proved to be really dangerous. We are not rich enough to support such kind of cooperation.

"Подписанты"! Ой, как смешно!










Николай Бурляев (справа):

Originally Posted by Lampada

"Подписанты"! Ой, как смешно!

Табаков, Баталов, Боярский... Ну ладно Говорухин - он по жизни с тяжелыми тараканами при всем моем к нему уважении и восхищении... Прочие же... нет, я могу понять, если кто-то пересмотрел ящика на старости лет и начал заявлять всякое... Но когда вот так вот тупо не свое мнение, откуда бы оно не проистекало, а "поддерживаю действия"... Действительно, мне трудно объяснить это чем-то, кроме желания не подставлять свой театр/подчиненных/фонд/родственников... Иногда ведь расписываться не нужно - достаточно просто промолчать, не заявить "это без меня расписались, не спрашивая". Были прецеденты, но я не думал, что все настолько серьезно.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Были прецеденты, но я не думал, что все настолько серьезно.

Чего вы хотите? У нас прикормленная элита. Они давно уже поняли, что наличие активной гражданской позиции (tm) негативно отражается на творческих перспективах. Вернее, не само наличие, а наличие неправильной гражданской позиции. Вопрос "с кем вы, мастера культуры" уже давно решён и снят с повестки дня.
Кроме того, я вообще не сильно понимаю смысла вот таких вот подписных листов. Ну, разве что - декларация о благонадёжности. А так - пусть сеют разумное, доброе вечное.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Ой, как смешно!

И что тут смешного? Может объясните, вместе посмеемся.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

И что тут смешного? Может объясните, вместе посмеемся.

Да, не так уж и смешно. Я передумала, не будем вместе смеяться.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Я передумала, не будем вместе смеяться.

И то верно. Над собой смеяться не очень весело. Особенно когда выставляешь фотографии актеров в нацисткой форме, которые играют советских разведчиков.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

И то верно. Над собой смеяться не очень весело. Особенно когда выставляешь фотографии актеров в нацисткой форме, которые играют советских разведчиков.

Весело! И над собой посмеяться весело, и над другими.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

И что тут смешного? Может объясните, вместе посмеемся.

Она забыла, что ее любимому Басилашвили всегда удавалось прекрасно играть сволочей.

@ it-ogo:
Thanks for the input. I knew you lived in Ukraine but I didn't know where and I didn't know you were ethnic Russian. I'm not surprised by your comments in posts #48 and #50. I have a friend that lives in Ecuador and they have uprisings there too. He was moving from Quito when the last uprising happened but fortunately the opposition wasn't that hostile. Now he lives in Ambato with all the ash from the Tungurahua eruptions. Fun... not.
It's probably a common misconception that all ethnic Russians that live in Ukraine are loyal Russians. That's like saying that all British people that live in America are loyal Brits. I can't imagine what it's like living in Ukraine but your posts really help.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

It's probably a common misconception that all ethnic Russians that live in Ukraine are loyal Russians. That's like saying that all British people that live in America are loyal Brits. I can't imagine what it's like living in Ukraine but your posts really help.

Basically "ethnic Russian" like myself here in Donbass is rather uncommon phenomenon. According to the statistics here we have somewhere about 40% Russians and 60% Ukrainians but in fact it means that a randoomly taken person has 40% of Russian ancestors and 60% of Ukrainian ones. You see, people here have several generations of marriages without giving a fax to anyone's ethnic background. And all the Ukrainian disorders were about building the state, not about anyone's ethnicity. They are Russian authorities who try to promote savage ethnic chauvinistic dimension to the problem.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Basically "ethnic Russian" like myself here in Donbass is rather uncommon phenomenon. According to the statistics here we have somewhere about 40% Russians and 60% Ukrainians but in fact it means that a randoomly taken person has 40% of Russian ancestors and 60% of Ukrainian ones. You see, people here have several generations of marriages without giving a fax to anyone's ethnic background. And all the Ukrainian disorders were about building the state, not about anyone's ethnicity. They are Russian authorities who try to promote savage ethnic chauvinistic dimension to the problem.

Imho, Putin and the US (including those in that mix) are the problems here. I'm not sure what the point is posting CNN BS and other mainstream articles. You will just get a mix-mash of crap and this is how you control countries. You accuse both sides of A and B and meanwhile, two similar groups are fighting each other. Who gains? Besides, the two sides are opportunists who don't care about the people in their countries and since you speak of ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians, that's what we are talking about here. Putin doesn't give a **** about either. The Elites who took over in Ukraine don't either. Faux 'nazis' and all. Whatever. All BS.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Basically "ethnic Russian" like myself here in Donbass is rather uncommon phenomenon. According to the statistics here we have somewhere about 40% Russians and 60% Ukrainians but in fact it means that a randoomly taken person has 40% of Russian ancestors and 60% of Ukrainian ones. You see, people here have several generations of marriages without giving a fax to anyone's ethnic background. And all the Ukrainian disorders were about building the state, not about anyone's ethnicity. They are Russian authorities who try to promote savage ethnic chauvinistic dimension to the problem.

I'm not married yet so I didn't consider that. But if I was in love then I know I wouldn't care if the girl was Scottish, Norwegian, Russian, Lithuanian, or whatever. So that makes sense. After a long time it would be very difficult to know who had what ethnicity.
So the only real split in Ukraine is between those who support the opposition and those who don't. I think I understand this better now. Thanks.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

So the only real split in Ukraine is between those who support the opposition and those who don't. I think I understand this better now.

Если вернуться к теме...

http://www.newsweek.com/american-who-dared-make-putins-case-231388