Thread: Stephen Cohen. Distorting Russia. How the American media misrepresent Putin...

Originally Posted by Hanna

I feel sorry for the people of Eastern Ukraine. It seems they just ended up on the wrong side of the border, because of some administrative decision in the 1920s (?) I understand it as if they are ethnic Russians or people who speak Russian as their first language.

Apparently Putin said that Russia will only get involved "as a last resort". I am wondering how many activists in Eastern Ukraine have decided to do their best to provoke a "last resort" situation.

It must also be very frustrating for them to see how people on the other side of the border are getting better finances and don't have to worry about language issues. Whereas for them, the situation is volatile and they are not getting richer.

If Ukraine splits, then the only decent thing to do, after all the meddling, would be for the EU to to take Western Ukraine. However it seems clear to me, that the parts of Ukraine that the USA is interested in, is Crimea in the East. Exacty the areas where Russia will probably not allow any foreign influence, and where the people support Russia. I wonder if the EU and USA didn't know about people's loyalties in Ukraine, and the language / culture situation.

What makes you think you can judge about people's loyalties in Ukraine? I am the only person you know here at forum from Eastern Ukraine, being Russian speaking and even ethnic Russian and I made my position clear. But you prefer to ignore the only direct evidence you have. I say: one should not be an intellectual giant to understand that the only purpose of invasion and most actions of Mr. Poo in Ukraine is to worsen our lives to ensure the loyality of Russian population to the Mr. Poo personally thus to preserve his power. And we don't need to listen to any "propaganda" for that - enough to have your everyday morning portion of chauvinism from conversations to Russian ctizens about Ukraine here at forum.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

... to ensure the loyality of Russian population to the Mr. Poo personally thus to preserve his power. ...

Я в шоке от некоторых фамилий: Официальный сайт Министерства культуры
Список открытый, можно прослеживать, кто ещё подпишется. Сейчас 103 человека.
Людей жалко: это ж под каким давлением нужно жить.

PS. Уже 104. Михалковых никого нет, Пугачёвой, Жванецкого, Дмитрия Быкова, Ефремова.

Originally Posted by Lampada

PS. Уже 104. Михалковых никого нет

За Михалкова не переживай! Этот.... режиссёр, как и его папа покойный, всегда колебался исключительно вместе с колебаниями генеральной линии партии.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

What makes you think you can judge about people's loyalties in Ukraine? I am the only person you know here at forum from Eastern Ukraine, being Russian speaking and even ethnic Russian and I made my position clear. But you prefer to ignore the only direct evidence you have. I say: one should not be an intellectual giant to understand that the only purpose of invasion and most actions of Mr. Poo in Ukraine is to worsen our lives to ensure the loyality of Russian population to the Mr. Poo personally thus to preserve his power. And we don't need to listen to any "propaganda" for that - enough to have your everyday morning portion of chauvinism from conversations to Russian ctizens about Ukraine here at forum.

Ok, I understand. I didn't know that you were from Eastern Ukraine. You never mentioned where you live, that I can recall. I don't read all the posts in Russian, it takes me too long. I thought you didn't want to say where you lived, and/or that you lived in some other part of Ukraine.

I totally respect your view, and in light of what you said, it seems that Russian TV is not reflecting the view of people in Eastern Ukraine in a balanced way.

They make out that practically everyone hates the new government in Kiev and are pro Russia. All you see is people with Russian flags and supporting Gubarev. While European media pretends that Eastern Ukraine doesn't exist. If you have flicked through Russian channels recently, you know what I mean.

My views were based completely on what I saw on Russian TV, can't understand everything they say, and it seems that I let myself be mislead!
Maybe Russian TV only covers the pro-Russian rallies and there are other rallies they ignore.

You know I respect your views, so this will make me re-think.

If you have the time, would you mind explaining:

1) In your town/city what do most people think. Same as you, or something different?
2) What would you like to see happening right now? In Kiev, in Moscow, in your own city and in Crimea?

Originally Posted by Hanna

1) In your town/city what do most people think. Same as you, or something different?
2) What would you like to see happening right now? In Kiev, in Moscow, in your own city and in Crimea?

Before Crimean invasion most people (like I am) were passively unhappy to both Yanukovich and protesters. After the runaway of Yanukovich people were happy that he is lost but quite sceptical about the protesters and the temporary government. But nobody was really afraid or angry like it was in 2004 - the situation is not exactly something new. Most common position is "all of them are bastards". Russian invasion changed much. For me it was unexpected: for some reason I was sure that we are safe form that side like you feel sure now that Sweden is safe from foreign invasion. Now most people afraid of the possible war and disorders - that is the most common emotion. We have some active supporters of the Kiev protesters but they are not the majority. What we have not is an imaginary loyalty to Russia. Most people understand well that Putin is merely a bastard resolving his own problems on our account. Most people are not ready to burn Russian tanks but we don't expect anything good from the East and we don't need a foreign military supports against the rest of Ukraine whatever our disagreements are. That is an internal business.

I don't want to discuss what I'd like to see happening somewhere else... Maybe my emotions are too strong or I am too evil, and anyway I don't want to be accused in extremism. Let us say I don't wish anything good to Russia now.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Before Crimean invasion most people (like I am) were passively unhappy to both Yanukovich and protesters. After the runaway of Yanukovich people were happy that he is lost but quite sceptical about the protesters and the temporary government. But nobody was really afraid or angry like it was in 2004 - the situation is not exactly something new. Most common position is "all of them are bastards". Russian invasion changed much. For me it was unexpected: for some reason I was sure that we are safe form that side like you feel sure now that Sweden is safe from foreign invasion. Now most people afraid of the possible war and disorders - that is the most common emotion. We have some active supporters of the Kiev protesters but they are not the majority. What we have not is an imaginary loyalty to Russia. Most people understand well that Putin is merely a bastard resolving his own problems on our account. Most people are not ready to burn Russian tanks but we don't expect anything good from the East and we don't need a foreign military supports against the rest of Ukraine whatever our disagreements are. That is an internal business.

I don't want to discuss what I'd like to see happening somewhere else... Maybe my emotions are too strong or I am too evil, and anyway I don't want to be accused in extremism. Let us say I don't wish anything good to Russia now.

Thanks, that was really interesting.
I know you don't visit the forum to discuss politics, mainly, so it's nice that you made an exception when your area is in the focus of current events.

And I don't think anybody has the right to accuse you of extremism in regards to events in your own country!

When you say "invasion", do you mean those guys with "unmarked" uniforms, in Crimea? Or something else?

I was so annoyed with the way Western media reports this, that I turned to Russian TV. I guess I was too busy trying to understand what they were saying, to be critical... I really thought their pictures of Eastern Ukrainians waving Russian flags more or less showed the full picture. Your post made me see that I was taken in by a misleading presentation.

Who is Gubarev and what happened with him? What is your view of him and why do some people like him - he's an oligarch!?

If your choice is between customs union with Russia and the "Eurasian Union" that Putin wants..... or EUs promises about closer co-operation and possible membership --- which do you prefer, and why?

Originally Posted by Hanna

Who is Gubarev and what happened with him? What is your view of him and why do some people like him - he's an oligarch!?

If your choice is between customs union with Russia and the "Eurasian Union" that Putin wants..... or EUs promises about closer co-operation and possible membership --- which do you prefer, and why?

Gubarev is a kind of clown who used temporary disability of authorities to make a performance. Some people can say that he is a kind of traitor who support foring military invasion, but I believe he is just an insane freak. I don't know who loves him. Maybe some guys enjoying disorders and revolutions? Well, they say, if Kiev enjoys revolution why can't we? Let's play! Don't afraid, nobody will go against us as they afraid of Russian militaries on the border!

Well, as for "Eurasian Union" I understood well the actions of Yanukovich. Ukraine needed money immediately to save from being bankrupt and Yanukovich took money from Putin while Europe proposed no immediate income and questionable long-term effects. But now I believe we should avoid any kind of cooperation with Russia as it is proved to be really dangerous. We are not rich enough to support such kind of cooperation.