Thread: "Russophobia" and "Russophilia" :)

Originally Posted by SergeMak

. Have you ever worked without getting paid for three and more months when the inflation rate was more than 30%? I did. Have you ever received you wage not in money but in some natural goods, as, for example, sausage? I did.
So don't tell me about the great liberal values and the bad life in the Soviet Union.

But now it's much better than in 90s and much bettre than in the USSR so maybe it's not that bad with tose "liberal values".

Originally Posted by SergeMak

.
Life in the Soviet Union was not easy, but there was a positive dynamic almost during the whole Soviet period. People always new, that to-day we maybe don't live very good, but to-morrow it will be better, and it really would happen.

I'm afraid it wouldn't. Those were only promises, things stayed the same every year. But i may be wrong considering china. Chinese managed to make reforms without revolutions. Whie the rgime in china is still much more strict than in USSR (which is ok with the western media btw when russia is always accused in some laws that are more strict in those western countries)

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

But now it's much better than in 90s and much bettre than in the USSR so maybe it's not that bad with tose "liberal values".

I'm afraid it wouldn't. Those were only promises, things stayed the same every year. But i may be wrong considering china. Chinese managed to make reforms without revolutions. Whie the rgime in china is still much more strict than in USSR (which is ok with the western media btw when russia is always accused in some laws that are more strict in those western countries)

I'm not against the "liberal values". In fact, I'm not against any great idealistic values at all be it religious values or humanitarian ones. I'm against fanatical adherence to any principles, because it leads to creation of idol, and that is violation of the 2nd Commandment:
"Вторая заповедь: Не сотвори себе кумира, и всякаго подобия, елика на небеси горе, и елика на земли низу, и елика в водах под землею: да не поклонишися им, ни послужиши им".
Those who impose on people fanatical adherence to maybe the most great values in fact very often appear to follow very low and greedy aims. So when you hear when smb praise some values ask yourself - what aims is he after?

As for Soviet stagnation, yes it had place, but it was only 1 or maybe 1,5 last decades of the Soviet period. In fact, that stagnation killed the Soviet Union.
As for the assertion, that life is now better than in the 90s - yes, but thanks to what? Thanks to selling gas and oil abroad - about 60% of the budget income is from this. It cannot last forever, we need to develop industry, and I don't see much advance in this.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

As for the assertion, that life is now better than in the 90s - yes, but thanks to what? Thanks to selling gas and oil abroad - about 60% of the budget income is from this. It cannot last forever, we need to develop industry, and I don't see much advance in this.

That's true. But there is light. It takes time. It takes like 5 years to destroy everything (even shorter while looking at Ukraine) and 55 to rebiuld. (i hope that goes fater).

But look at norway btw. What do they produce besides pumping oil and gas? Not that much.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

But look at norway btw. What do they produce besides pumping oil and gas? Not that much.

As their neighbour and speaking the language, more or less... In addition to oil, they have
1) Fish, fish and more fish....
2) Svalbard and a slice of the Arctic and whatever is hidden there...
3) Ports to the Atlantic that Sweden and Finland use as well - it's a source of income.
4) A little bit of ship building - but it's cheaper to do it in Asia, so I don't know if it's still active.

The state there is HUGE and apparently very bureacratic in an old fashioned way. They never had to/needed to or wanted to slim down the state - so everything is very bureaeucratic.

They have managed the oil money quite well, paying back all debts and investing in public services.

The state, mainly, owns the oil, similar to in Russia, I think... But lots of private companies are involved in serving Statoil, that's what some people got rich on there.

They know they have to get ready for when the oil runs out and have lots of projects preparing for it.
Same dilemma as Russia I think. They know they need to diversify but it's not easy. .

Before they found the oil they were a well managed social democratic, and quite christian country. However, historically (pre-1950s or so, Norway was always poor, but people are hardworking and honest. They had a big transformation of society recently though. Same thing as the rest of Western Europe; issues with immigration and drastic rise in criminality.

But the most important thing that Norway doesn't own their oil and gas, they just collect tax from BP.
Norway had exchanged their sovereignty for garanteed piece of their oil pie.

Really? Are you sure about that? I thought that Statoil (state owned Norwegian official oil company). owned the Norwegian oil and BP or anyone else bought off them. In Scandianvia you see their oil tankers and petrol stations everywhere. I think it sells gas as well.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Statoil is similar in its structure, to Gazprom I believe.

Statoil is technically a bramch of BP. While on mass media it's more or less independent.
But i may be mistaken, information is pretty old.

Really? Are you sure about that?

I'm afraid i'm. But let me check for some sources

I thought that Statoil (state owned Norwegian official oil company). owned the Norwegian oil and BP or anyone else bought off them. In Scandianvia you see their oil tankers and petrol stations everywhere. I think it sells gas as well.

One of my clients owns a network of gas stations with signs "LUKOIL" whereas he only has a long term contract for supply with lukoil and nothing else.
In the US there are a bunch of gas companies with different fancy logos which are just branches of chevron

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Statoil is technically a bramch of BP. While on mass media it's more or less independent.
But i may be mistaken, information is pretty old.

Oops, I was editing my post while you replied

I'm no expert on this either, but I don't think BP owns Statoil.
I recently worked at BP, I think I would have heard... And it's not in the Wikipedia article.
BP had a couple of thosand employees in Norway, which I remember from this previous job...

Statoil must employ 10,000 people, at least!

Anyway, their situation IS similar to Russia's, and they have a lot less oil than Russia.
They will face the end of oil and gas before Russia does.
Hopefully they have sorted something out by then - or it's back to fishing and knitting colourful cardigans for them...