Thread: Putin's increasing police state and smth about some other countries

Originally Posted by mishau_

Теория заговора - это фигня. План Люцифера, он гораздо опаснее любых человеческих заговоров.

Ящерики овладевают - вот это проблема. А Люцифер - друг и товарищ человека.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Ящерики овладевают - вот это проблема. А Люцифер - друг и товарищ человека.

Нет, ящерики не опасны, у нас под самым носом вот-вот пробудится Ктулху, вот это реально страшно! (;,;)

Originally Posted by mishau_

Нет, ящерики не опасны, у нас под самым носом вот-вот пробудится Ктулху, вот это реально страшно! (;,

Это не Ктулху, а Годзилла, друг человека. Он почти не кусается. Проблема - это астероид. Он падает.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Wow, I'll be darned if you are not completely right. Saddam Hussein tried it too....
That's what it all comes down to. The dollar must be the top currency, even though it's actually not supported by anything other than the US military.... and then the need to commercialize everything, American style.

But there are two countries which the US cannot take on and be sure to win: China and Russia. Europe is already in the US pocket...

But if China and Russia could come to an agreement together to switch do some alternative, then things might change. Apparently China itself has masses of dollars saved though, and can not afford for them to lose their value.

Fair play, the road map seems to lead there.. but there can't be enough gas in the tank.... can there?

.. The idea that the 'golden dinar' would somehow be able to upstage not only the american dollar, but every other currency on the map? That the US should be worried that these new forms of currency would go from 0 to being the pace car of currencies, so we move in an expensive and costly (in terms of lives) "democracy operation?" I'm a conspiracy theorist enough to believe it.. but shouldn't there be something more imminently threatening than "the golden dinar?" (And, if we moved in on Saddam because of currency, then am I to believe that the stories of human torture wherein children were tied to ceiling fans until they were swung to death were fabricated? Or were they just "icing on the cake" for reasons to move in military?)

Please don't mistake this for an attempt to debate this; I merely want to know what everyone's thought are. I know nothing of these topics beyond what little I've read and I respect your opinions... my conspiracy theorist research has all been in reference to goings-on on American soil.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Это не Ктулху, а Годзилла, друг человека. Он почти не кусается. Проблема - это астероид. Он падает.

Неправда ваша, дяденька. Астероид-то как раз себе вполне мирно летит, а падать он начинает только если вдруг Земля оказывается рядом. Поэтому Земля - более реальная проблема, чем астероид. Тем более, что вот-вот ледяной щит Антарктиды сползёт в океан. Но ящерики, пожалуй, всё-таки страшнее. Они и астероид подтолкнуть горазды, и Антарктиду потрясти на горячую голову. И Годзиллу склонировать, предварительно генно-модифицировав до безобразия. И всё это, заметь, без грамма выпивки. Ну, и как с такими иметь дело?

Кончайте баловаться. Ваша болтовня не похожа ни на офф-топик, ни даже на троллинг. And it's not cute. Если хозяин темы пожелает, то я могу это всё вытереть.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Ваша болтовня не похожа ни на офф-топик, ни даже на троллинг. Если хозяин темы пожелает, то я могу это всё вытереть.

Пожалуйста...

Originally Posted by sperk

Пожалуйста...

Ладно, давай подождём, может, сами вытрут.

Лампада - либерал.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

There is policy of the 'golden billion' against all others - to maintain the status quo.
=> Please, provide some proof.

By 'golden billion' I mean North America and Europe. All who has enough food, shelter and clothes and some extras. This definition includes you and me as well. This billion people is called 'golden' because it controls 4/5 of the world's wealth. So, tell me, will you give away 80% of your posessions in order to save the starving in Africa? No, I don't think so. You'll point at someone who is richer than you and generally say that the hunger is not your fault and blah blah blah. So this is your policy. No matter what particular government you have, they can be liberalists, conservatives, republicans, democrats or even communists - you won't give away 80% of your wealth. And nobody would. This makes you a collaborationist.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

There are natural resources - metal, oil, gas, water, wood, etc - all of this is produced or extracted in the so called 'third world' countries.
=> Not all. Some of it is produced in the second world countries. For example in Canada.

And does it prove anything?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

All of this is bought in exchange for US dollar - a green piece of paper that's worth nothing.
=> Any money worth nothing unless another person is [temporarily] willing to give you something for it (and vice versa). I think we have discussed it extensively in the past.

Yes, we discussed that. The key word is 'willing'. People don't have any choice and any attempt to provide an alternative gets smothered with 'winged democracy'. And people do want an alternative but this will be against US interests.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Anyone who tries to introduce some other international reserve currency (like golden dinar as it was with Gaddafi) immediately gets a 'democracy operation' in his country.
=> I would really like to learn more about that. Would you be able to provide me some links (not the google search results, but something that made your mind that way). I mean, what's so special about the golden dinar?

There's nothing special about it except the fact 'it's golden' and they planned to sell oil for dinars only. US can live with free yuan, rouble even, but oil is a blood of economy.

Why Qazzafi was Targeted? He was introducing Golden Dinar
Is Libya being bombed because Gaddafi wants to introduce gold dinar?
The Daily Bell - Gaddafi Planned Gold Dinar, Now Under Attack
The Gold Dinar: Saving the world economy from Gaddafi

Originally Posted by Lampada

Кончайте баловаться. Ваша болтовня не похожа ни на офф-топик, ни даже на троллинг.

Правильно. Это не офф-отпик и не троллинг. Это вполне себе безобидная ирония на тему всемирных заговоров. А о полицейском государстве вообще и речи не идет. Скорее о мародерском. Выстроена демократия по принципу берегового братства XVII века.

Originally Posted by Marcus

Что такое "троллизм"? ....я не понимаю, почему вы так несерьёзно относитесь к моему мнению.

Здесь админ американьский, поэтому троллить про буржуев ниZZя. Попробуй создать тему типа "В России беременных выбрасываю на улицу" или поюродствуй по поводу доступности Красной площади на 9-е мая - слова никто не скажет. =)

А есть ли у "буржуев" такое: Человек прибыл из другой страны, получил гражданство, затем ему ампутировали конечность, а инвалидность не дают - нет московской прописки.

Originally Posted by mishau_

А есть ли у "буржуев" такое: Человек прибыл из другой страны, получил гражданство, затем ему ампутировали конечность, а инвалидность не дают - нет московской прописки.

Всё по закону, чем ты недоволен?

Originally Posted by Ramil

By 'golden billion' I mean North America and Europe. All who has enough food, shelter and clothes and some extras. This definition includes you and me as well. This billion people is called 'golden' because it controls 4/5 of the world's wealth. So, tell me, will you give away 80% of your posessions in order to save the starving in Africa? No, I don't think so. You'll point at someone who is richer than you and generally say that the hunger is not your fault and blah blah blah. So this is your policy. No matter what particular government you have, they can be liberalists, conservatives, republicans, democrats or even communists - you won't give away 80% of your wealth. And nobody would. This makes you a collaborationist.

Can we go one step back though? When you said "There is policy of the 'golden billion' against all others" I was under impression you mean the 'richer' states deliberately want the existence of the 'poorer' states. And, as such, they make efforts to keep the 'poorer' states even poorer (as the anti-globalist ideology suggests). Was that your intention? Or, your way of thinking goes along with Hanna's in that there's a finite amount of resources and so the 'richer' countries possess all the resources and do not want to share any (=give some of them up) of the resources with the 'poorer' countries? So, using your and Hanna's terminology, me and you should stop taking expensive vacations to Carribean and rather send that money to Africa where that money can purchase livestock and feed the entire families? Or, you mean something else?

Originally Posted by Ramil

There are natural resources - metal, oil, gas, water, wood, etc - all of this is produced or extracted in the so called 'third world' countries.
=> Not all. Some of it is produced in the second world countries. For example in Canada.
And does it prove anything?

It proves there's no deliberate policy of the 'richer' states to deliberately keep the 'poorer' states poorer. That is also a proof that you don't need to own the FRS's printing machines to not to be poor. In addition, it's a proof that an oil/natural resources exporting country can also export goods. (When the Canadian dollar rises as a result of the oil rise, the Bank of Canada tries to lower it as much as possible by all measures to make the export of goods be profitable.)

Originally Posted by Ramil

There's nothing special about it except the fact 'it's golden' and they planned to sell oil for dinars only.

Ok, you gave me a homework to read all those articles, so I'll get back to you on that.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Кончайте баловаться. Ваша болтовня не похожа ни на офф-топик, ни даже на троллинг. And it's not cute. Если хозяин темы пожелает, то я могу это всё вытереть.

Да ладно, зачем уж так кипятиться?

Originally Posted by Ramil

Anyone who tries to introduce some other international reserve currency (like golden dinar as it was with Gaddafi) immediately gets a 'democracy operation' in his country. [...] There's nothing special about it except the fact 'it's golden' and they planned to sell oil for dinars only. US can live with free yuan, rouble even, but oil is a blood of economy.

Ok, I've done my homework. Phew! Here's what I think about it. It is highly unlikely the introduction of the golden currency was so decisive as to cause the military operation in Libya, however, the operation might have won a much broader support in the goods-exporting countries for that reason.

The major point neither of those article touch (and I hope you will) is: if the US (with its allegedly еphemeral green paper) was so afraid of the golden dinar, why is that the major call for the military operation came from Europe and not from the US? Unless I get a satisfactory answer I'm not sure I can proceed any further on taking this claim any seriously. (And by a satisfactory answer I mean anything except for: "well, the US ultimately controls Europe, and the US is so inspire-conspiring that it wanted others to act on its behalf." )

As a side note, according to one of your articles Why Qazzafi was Targeted? He was introducing Golden Dinar “There were two conferences on this, in 1986 and 2000, organized by Gaddafi. Everybody was interested, most countries in Africa were keen," and neither time was Gaddafi attacked.

By the way, one of the results of the two world wars was to form an agreement to work business issues like that out collectively in a global forum and not unilaterally (which can cause new wars). So, strictly speaking, Gaddafi was provoking the goods-exporting countries to go on war with him, but every time he did it again those countries preferred relatively peaceful counter-measures. This time the military operation just coincided with the global Middle East unrest.

So, I'm afraid Hanna's bet on it was too hasty.

Hehe Croc! There are always different ways to interpret history.
But it's interesting that lately there it is always the same country that invades other countries and builds up endless stories of how gruesome these countries are, and why they need to be invaded for everyones best. Yet when you scratch the surface; oil, currency or spreading commercialism is always there in the background.
You are leaning much more towards the Fox News interpretation of things than I am.
If I see a clear pattern then no amount of hype can get me to look around it.
And I feel there is a pattern.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Hehe Croc! There are always different ways to interpret history.
But it's interesting that lately there it is always the same country that invades other countries and builds up endless stories of how gruesome these countries are, and why they need to be invaded for everyones best. Yet when you scratch the surface; oil, currency or spreading commercialism is always there in the background.
You are leaning much more towards the Fox News interpretation of things than I am.
If I see a clear pattern then no amount of hype can get me to look around it.
And I feel there is a pattern.

How do you divide hype from clear-patten criteria, and give the latter credence? How to identify Real from Not-Real? What you mention above about "it's interesting.." is similar to the often-mentioned Bilderberg theory. (I'm actually a fan of that theory - some of it checks out, and it's plausible, if a little manic.)
But with respect: Most of the people who work in politics in my US are (imho but w/ citations!) idiots - far below the requisite intellect of folks who can fool the people en-masse.. The type of idiots that, when some objectile should be propelled toward their face at a high-profile press conference abroad in a hostile country, would try to CATCH said object instead of, oh, I don't know, taking cover. (An acinine reference, but it's shoe .. er, true. ) We have people in politics in America with severe drug problems, marital problems, deep-seated honesty problems - senators that fake their deaths, cheat on their wives, and get caught on TV just hoping it will IMPROVE their career. We even generated a Jimmy MacMillan recently, which is telling enough on its own about us. -- For crying out loud, one of our biggest states is governed by a halfwit Austrian ex-bodybuilder who is himself in the midst of a divorce... (It's not that America doesn't turn out great people. It's just that precious few of our great people are politicians.)
I would not doubt the idea that people like Berlusconi or Medvedev or someone else would be smart enough to be part of the Bilderbergs and leave us none the wiser. But when I try to imagine people like Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden being privy to the goings-on of this uber-powerful phantom-group, I can't help but laugh at the idea. Honestly, in my opinion, Obama's the first politician we've had in a long time who isn't a towering, rosaceic embarassment to us by just being on camera. He was the first president in my lifetime I can actually imagine as being smart enough to fool us. (And Kennedy, the one before him, was, fittingly enough, assassinated.)
Hanna, I for one don't doubt we're being fooled. But I know the puppeteer has got to be better than the ones we've seen.

Reading what you say is interesting... I think you've got your country pinned down - and it's a real shame things should be like that. It could be such a great country. The "dumbing down" of Americans seems almost deliberate. And most Americans are so affected by this that they don't even realise it's a problem! Catch 22!

When "news" has to be entertainment and appeal to the lowest common denominator.... also please the shareholders of the company that owns the TV network and accommodate for insane levels of constant commercial breaks.... then it's no surprise that the average person has no idea what's really going on in the world and in their country.

What's happened with American education I don't know, but I can tell you that "dumb Americans" are a source of lots of jokes in Western Europe for example. Can't even point out the major countries on a world map; know NOTHING about the history or real state of politics of major countries and have picked up some shockingly incorrect misinformation about some parts of the world. It seems to me that the only way to get a proper education in the US; either to go to a top private school, or read up about things on your own. (Respect to those who have done that!) I think this is really sad.... the ignorance of people means they can be tricked to think that it's necessary to regularly invade other countries, spend money and sacrifice lives for wars that are not needed for anyone apart from commercial interests. Why some smarter European nations play along with this I have no idea... but many people in Europe are furious about their countries' (largely symbolic) representation in America's wars.

I am disappointed that Obama has not deviated much from Bush' foreign policies. I agree with you he seems smarter and somewhat more sympathetic than many of the other presidents. But fundamentally he's changed nothing.

Bilderberg seems just too complicated a conspiracy for me to believe in. Freemasons, Jews etc; same thing.
If there IS a worldwide conspiracy, then it's probably a bit more secret. But most likely there is nothing very organised in place.
I lean more towards Ramil's point; that the "conspiracy" is fairly open secret - it's just that media is totally ignoring it.

A complex worldwide conspiracy would be too complicated I think: A human life is too short and a real worldwide conspiracy would take many generations to implement. Nobody lives long enough to keep the conspiracy running, or see it come to fruition.

Unless the plan/conspiracy is God's or the Devil's .....