Thread: Occupy Wall Street around the world.... Your thoughts and feelings about it!

Originally Posted by fortheether

From this site:

Occupy Wall Street | NYC Protest for American Revolution

In the section "October 15th Call to Action"

It says in part:

This has to stop!
We must usher in an era of democratic and economic justice.
We must change, we must evolve.
On October 15th the world will rise up as one and say, "We have had enough! We are a new beginning, a global fight on on all fronts that will usher in an era of shared prosperity, respect, mutual aid, and dignity."

**

I can't help but to think that "economic justice" and "shared prosperity" means to some people that I should go to work and they should stay in their mom's basement and that I owe them something.

Scott

Yeah, and this will end up in the way they'll force you to work, and watch you're not rich enough no matter how hard you work and not their "class enemy". We already have examples of such systems.

Frankly, I don't know what else I can say that could be constructive. The last two posts I've read were just descriptions of personal fears that were extracted from some pretty general language that certainly didn't target the concepts you two pulled out of them.

The one thing that I can say is, through the wording, it is revealed that Scott feels he's doing okay fiscally. That's good news and I certainly won't want to detract from that.

And given the lack of usefulness discussing political opinion in the face of what seems to be socio-psychological paranoia (basement? huh??) I'm going to save my effort on this topic for a later conversation where all parties are better informed - or, at least, less personally and emotionally tied to the issue.

When I discuss my opinions about politics, I rarely factor my own personal loss/gain into the equation - in my view, it would color my opinions and corrode my concept of what is just. I try to think more macro than this. This morning I've given a lot of thought to this... and I could conceive doing someone an emotional injury by accident, arguing politics when the recipient of my arguments is considering his personal finances. I'll stop for the sake of amicability, though I still support this movement.

And honestly, when I hear the phrase "think that I owe them something" in a political discussion, it's a red flag for me, that the moment of debate has passed, and the moment of right-wing spitball throwing has begun. I leave this arena to Rush and friends.

Originally Posted by kidkboom

Frankly, I don't know what else I can say that could be constructive. The last two posts I've read were just descriptions of personal fears that were extracted from some pretty general language that certainly didn't target the concepts you two pulled out of them.

The one thing that I can say is, through the wording, it is revealed that Scott feels he's doing okay fiscally. That's good news and I certainly won't want to detract from that.

And given the lack of usefulness discussing political opinion in the face of what seems to be socio-psychological paranoia (basement? huh??) I'm going to save my effort on this topic for a later conversation where all parties are better informed - or, at least, less personally and emotionally tied to the issue.

When I discuss my opinions about politics, I rarely factor my own personal loss/gain into the equation - in my view, it would color my opinions and corrode my concept of what is just. I try to think more macro than this. This morning I've given a lot of thought to this... and I could conceive doing someone an emotional injury by accident, arguing politics when the recipient of my arguments is considering his personal finances. I'll stop for the sake of amicability, though I still support this movement.

And honestly, when I hear the phrase "think that I owe them something" in a political discussion, it's a red flag for me, that the moment of debate has passed, and the moment of right-wing spitball throwing has begun. I leave this arena to Rush and friends.

Kidkboom,

OK then can you spare your effort and explain what this movement is about? What would have to happen for this movement to say we've accomplished our goals?

As to your red flag the phrase "think that I owe them something" - how else do you redistribute the wealth as Barack Obama has stated he wants to do without someone owing someone else something (money) by force?

Your comments about my finances are hilarious.

And honestly, when I hear the phrase "I'm going to save my effort on this topic for a later conversation where all parties are better informed - or, at least, less personally and emotionally tied to the issue." please see me first two questions and please inform us.


Scott

Originally Posted by kidkboom

And honestly, when I hear the phrase "think that I owe them something" in a political discussion, it's a red flag for me

Please, don't take that personally, as that seemed to me being a very valid concern: Canadians ‘Occupy’ Toronto, Montreal in Wall Street Protests - Businessweek

About 1,000 people gathered in the heart of Toronto’s financial district beginning at 10 a.m. local time to protest inequality and advocate higher taxes for the wealthy.

One of my socially-oriented friends joined and later on said there were all kind of people there. Some of them were more sober and motivated and others just gathered to plainly smoke pot and hang around.
Also, the taxes in Toronto (a very Liberal city) are quite high, but apparently that's still not enough.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Please, don't take that personally, as that seemed to me being a very valid concern: Canadians ‘Occupy’ Toronto, Montreal in Wall Street Protests - Businessweek


One of my socially-oriented friends joined and later on said there were all kind of people there. Some of them were more sober and motivated and others just gathered to plainly smoke pot and hang around.
Also, the taxes in Toronto (a very Liberal city) are quite high, but apparently that's still not enough.

The taxes (property tax) here in New Jersey are quite high also, but apparently that's still not enough.

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

The taxes (property tax) here in New Jersey are quite high also, but apparently that's still not enough.

Scott

Well, it's not only the property tax, but the land transfer tax in Toronto is twice as high as anywhere else in Canada. Just for the sake of it. You can wake up the next day, just to find another $70 yearly tax because you have a car. Just something to cover their expenses with. The province of Ontario (which is Liberal) recently found that it would be very beneficial to tax all goods and services 13% (and it was just 5% or 8% on some goods and services before July 2010). Mostly, the new increase influenced the fuel costs, but, hey, the basement dwellers don't have to drive, do they? And so on. The Conservative federal government had been reducing their tax (from 7% down to 5%) and the Liberal provincial government is happy to cancel that positive economic effect because, hey, now people got some money available, so why not?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Well, it's not only the property tax, but the land transfer tax in Toronto is twice as high as anywhere else in Canada. Just for the sake of it. You can wake up the next day, just to find another $70 yearly tax because you have a car. Just something to cover their expenses with. The province of Ontario (which is Liberal) recently found that it would be very beneficial to tax all goods and services 13% (and it was just 5% or 8% on some goods and services before July 2010). Mostly, the new increase influenced the fuel costs, but, hey, the basement dwellers don't have to drive, do they? And so on. The Conservative federal government had been reducing their tax (from 7% down to 5%) and the Liberal provincial government is happy to cancel that positive economic effect because, hey, now people got some money available, so why not?

Mostly, the new increase influenced the fuel costs, but, hey, the basement dwellers don't have to drive, do they?

That's so funny

Isn't it funny that some people from big cities that can use public transportation want everyone else to drive less.

Scott