Thread: Liberties of the Russian people .

I was wondering , what kind of personal freedoms do you Russians get ? For example , freedom of speech , religion , ect . ?

It depends on what are you calling 'personal freedom'. In the case of religion it's not a problem. There are four religions called 'traditional religions' by the law: Christian (Orthodox and others), Muslim, Buddism and Judaism. Many people are atheists. But some radical religions sects are officialy banned.
As for so-called freedom of speech... The four official state TV channels are shows only pro-goverment point of view, but there are plenty of goverment critic on other TV channels, radio, in newspapers and of course internet. Also compared to Western society, Russian society is much less conserned about 'political correctness' so in that case we have more freedom.

P.S. When someone ask a question about freedom of speech in Russia, I'm always remembering a joke from Soviet times when Russian and American leaders arguing wich country has more freedom. American president says:
- One could come out to the square in front of the White House and cry: "American president is an as$hole!". And there will be no punishment.
General Secretary of Communist Party of USSR answers:
- Big deal! One could come out to the Red Square too and cry: "American president is an as$hole!". And there will be no punishment either.

Thank you , and for the record , I'm not comparing our country's . I'm just curious .

There's enough freedom of speech to say things about Russian president either. It's probably OK to criticize the government because nobody really cares about who tells what. Russians, of all people are probably the most distrustful and suspicious kind in the whole world. Thus, nobody really cares about who tells what (and neither does the government). There are two reasons for this: a) Everyone knows that every official, every man in the government and the Duma are corrupt criminals anyway, so nothing about them would really surprise people; and b) Nobody really trusts journalists or politicians enough to take what they say or write at face value. Everybody lies.

Originally Posted by Ramil

a) Everyone knows that every official, every man in the government and the Duma are corrupt criminals anyway, so nothing about them would really surprise people; and b) Nobody really trusts journalists or politicians enough to take what they say or write at face value. Everybody lies.

How depressing. I don't know how you can live like that. No wonder so many people emigrate from Russia. And as a follow on; why should anyone fight and/or die protecting a country run by crooks and liars? If this is true, then patriotism in Russia ought to be stone dead!

Originally Posted by Hanna

And as a follow on; why should anyone fight and/or die protecting a country run by crooks and liars? If this is true, then patriotism in Russia ought to be stone dead!

First, I don't think that the picture is strongly differ from any country around the world. All politicans are crooks and liars, didn't you know that? Second, Russia was run like that for centuries, patriotism has nothing to do with this, do you think that we never had some patriotic feelings?

Originally Posted by chaika

Judging by how many Russian journalists have been murdered over the past few years and strangely enough few of the murderers have been found, somebody seems to take them seriously

I strongly doubt that Putin gives orders to kill some journalists. More likely the majority of those who were murdered touched some interests of some criminal bosses. And they haven't been found because our police (militia) sucks. They usually don't do nothing to catch a criminal if he wasn't caught at the crime scene.

Originally Posted by Basil77

All politicans are crooks and liars, didn't you know that?

Absolutely true. This is not just a usual politician-baiting rant from Basil. It's a basic fact. Not a single politician has become a politician for the good of the public. Politics is an endless quest for power. And corruption is in the nature of power. There's no room for optimism.

Hanna, you originally come from one of the most democratic parts of the world, and live in one of the oldest continuous democracies. It's no surprise that you find Basil's (and Ramil's) views rather cynical. But a Greek, or an Iranian, would be much more likely to agree with them.

@Basil:
Two questions:
1-What do you think of Vladimir Zhirinovsky? I'm just curious.
2-That Soviet joke. Here's a slightly different version, told by someone you definitely know (starting from around 2:13). What do you think of that guy?

Nice new avatar, by the way!

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

@Basil:
Two questions:
1-What do you think of Vladimir Zhirinovsky? I'm just curious.

You should ask Ramil about Zhirinovsky, at least he voted for him. I think that if all politicans are cynics than Zhirinovsky is a squared super-cynic. His party was known as 'pay and we vote for anything' in the former Duma while their votes still mattered. He sucsessfully playing a role of clown to stay in the politic. I really wonder how people can vote for such a jerk:

2-That Soviet joke. Here's a slightly different version, told by someone you definitely know (starting from around 2:13). What do you think of that guy?

I think of him exactly as the joke says - he was complete as$hole. His 'star wars' doctrinie (so-called strategic defence initiative), 'Empire of Evil' (wtf!), even current financial world crisis is a result of financial policy started by the same ol' Ronny. He should stay an actor and play in sh!tty movies instead of becoming a politican.

Nice new avatar, by the way!

Thanks! I took it from here: It's from 'Scandinavia and the World' series by Danish cartoonist.

You need to make a distinction between the country and the state. One can love his country but hate the state.

Originally Posted by Ramil

You need to make a distinction between the country and the state. One can love his country but hate the state.

Dear Ramil and Hanna, it's like I've watching the conversation between a greek and a foreigner. The whole same stuff happens in Greece over the past few years. And yes, Ramil, you're sooo right as for the distinction between state and country.
As I have discussed with other russians as well, I've come to conclusion, that one way or another, the situation in your country is quite similar to mine. Everybody lies. People don't care about anything anymore, they're just struggling to survive, nothing else is important to them.
But I quite agree with Chaika as well. Many peculiar deaths have occurred among russian journalists. Therefore, Ramil, I guess that "somebody" cares after all about what is being said, or is going to be said... isn't it?
Anyway, it comes to a conclusion, that corruption is well established in Russia as well as in many other countries one of which is also Greece.

Originally Posted by Ramil

You need to make a distinction between the country and the state. One can love his country but hate the state.

...and still want to leave.

>Nobody really trusts journalists or politicians enough to take what they say or write at face value

Judging by how many Russian journalists have been murdered over the past few years and strangely enough few of the murderers have been found, somebody seems to take them seriously.

Originally Posted by Basil77

First, I don't think that the picture is strongly differ from any country around the world. All politicans are crooks and liars, didn't you know that? Second, Russia was run like that for centuries, patriotism has nothing to do with this, do you think that we never had some patriotic feelings?

I really don't think that all politicians are corrupt. It depends on what country you compare with. In several smaller countries in Europe there is practically no corruption among politicians. It's certainly not perfect, but there is no unholy alliance between business and politicians to rip off the people and manipulate politics, like there seems to be in the USA and Russia at the moment.

I know Russians are patriotic on holidays etc.... Seems to me like those who really love their country should try to do something stop it from being abused and plundered by crooks.

Originally Posted by Ramil

You need to make a distinction between the country and the state. One can love his country but hate the state.

Yeah that's true... That's an interesting discussion, really. Why should people be (or not be) patriots... Plus in the case of people from the ex-USSR area, it becomes more complicated since they were born in one country.. and find themselves living in another, without actually having moved... And also; people seemed to be mixed a bit; Russians living outside of Russia, and people from other parts of the CIS area living in Russia. How does that affect things... ?

Regardless though; I think the way that the country is run affects whether you want to live there or not..! If politicians make a complete shambles of things or the political climate is intolerable for some reason; then I imagine it must be hard to feel patriotic.

I agree that Russian culture and nature are both great, and I can understand this compensates for the other areas.

The "Empire of Evil" stuff definitely didn't sit well with Russians.
Soviet propaganda wasn't very fond of America either, but Reagan crossed the line.
That was the first time I felt like the USA was a real enemy, not just a bitter competitor.

Is that photo real??? I mean, no Photoshop tricks or anything? God! I knew he's a bit out of his mind, but I wouldn't suspect him to be such a retard...

...while their votes still mattered.

Does that mean they don't matter any more? The guy himself is on TV channels day and night...

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

Is that photo real??? I mean, no Photoshop tricks or anything? God! I knew he's a bit out of his mind, but I wouldn't suspect him to be such a retard...

Yes, it's real. It was on state TV channels - he is propaganding vaccination against bird flu.

Does that mean they don't matter any more? The guy himself is on TV channels day and night...

Yes, their votes don't matter since United Russia has absolute majority in State Duma, (more than 2/3), that means they could change even the Constitution by their votes alone.

Another famous video of Zhirinovsky (Warning, a lot of swearing!):

Originally Posted by Basil77

Another famous video of Zhirinovsky (Warning, a lot of swearing!):

"Не сметь стрелять по Багдаду. Лучше вместе ...нем по Тбилиси!!"

Laughed my AZZZZ off!

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

.. the monkey who is the current president of Iran..

You are in Tehran and don't afraid to write such things? I myself as the majority of people on this planet think that this Ahmadinejad guy is a moron, but I thought it's very dangerous to say such things in Iran.

Originally Posted by Basil77

You are in Tehran and don't afraid to write such things?

Afraid? Of what? Trash-talking on the internet? Well, we've said infinitely worse things on the streets, a mere 5 meters from the Revolutionary Guards.

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

Afraid? Of what? Trash-talking on the internet? Well, we've said infinitely worse things on the streets, a mere 5 meters from the Revolutionary Guards.

I gather that all those talks about 'no freedom of speech in Iran' are just those -- talks? Somehow it restores my beliefs in the world order.