Thread: Latest from Ukraine

Originally Posted by Lampada

Я могу многое путать, но одно несомненно, и я это чуть раньше уже говорила: Украина не может выиграть войну с Россией. И те, кто начали эту войну, это тоже знали, и что многие тысячи людей погибнут их не смутило. Ещё тысячи могут погибнуть непонятно за что.

не пора ли тогда войну заканчивать?
Условия договора совсем не страшные, Донбасс остается в составе Украины, но как федеративный округ, о чем и был референдум. Россия хочет получить гарантии внеблоковости от Украины и все.
Стоит ли ради этого воевать, мне вообще это странным кажется, в Киеве какие-то неадекватные люди сидят, на мой взгляд.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Interesting comments:

And either the Russians must be magicians in they way they opperate or the Ukrainians as dumb as a stump in not capturing even one offical soldier of Russia as proof.

They've captured far more than one. Putin even admitted one group had crossed over the border and been captured by Ukrainian forces. After they admitted it themselves on camera. I believe he claimed they were "lost".

end of comments
Russia just claims ignorance in everything when they are caught. Putin is former KGB and their entire system is FSB-based. They have control over the media, vk and security so they can deny anything and spin it so that blame can be on the West. Of course, the West are hypocrites but just because they deserve blame, it doesn't mean that some evidence that is uncovered that implicates Russia can be tossed automatically which is what is expected. 'We caught this Russian soldier.' A: Oh, he was lost. I guess pro-Putin Russians expect everyone else to be a *****ing moron.

you flying insults just show that you don't wanna talk facts, if you'd like to be ignored I can give you that, just make a hint.

Originally Posted by hddscan

.So if there is no proof then Kiev "makes" it, that's how it was done since the beginning of this conflict

LOL! Yeah, yeah, both sides accuse each other of using old videos and photographs. So, what?

You didn't answer the question. That's because you can't. The right questions aren't being asked. That's because Ukraine's leadership is inept. Imho. Their strategy is awful. They're in over their heads.

Originally Posted by hddscan

you flying insults just show that you don't wanna talk facts, if you'd like to be ignored I can give you that, just make a hint.

That was a fact. You can't deal with it.

More fakes about Russian troops in Ukraine, this time from Germany - http://rt.com/news/232963-germany-russia-tanks-ukraine/

What's the point to show all these fakes if

It's obvious Russia is sending weapons and military gear.

I mean if it's obvious why all the fakes?

Originally Posted by 14Russian

That was a fact. You can't deal with it.

I don't deny that 10 Russian paratroopers were intercepted by Ukraine and returned back to Russia. The fact that they were returned with no charges tells that Ukraine agrees with Russian version that they were lost, so why couldn't you agree to that too?

Originally Posted by 14Russian

You didn't answer the question.

Could you formulate your question in one sentence and I'll answer it?

Originally Posted by hddscan

More fakes about Russian troops in Ukraine, this time from Germany - http://rt.com/news/232963-germany-russia-tanks-ukraine/

What's the point to show all these fakes if
I mean if it's obvious why all the fakes?

Germany wants a reason to say out of it. Even though, they are obedient to the West (USA etc.), they have economic ties to Russia and Russia's effect on the EU mean they are divided. The rich there have money at stake so they sabotage info. It's all about money.

That's my theory on why all the fakes.

Originally Posted by hddscan

Could you formulate your question in one sentence and I'll answer it?

Why does there seem to be an endless supply of military equipment and weapons in that region? I could expand on that - what's the numbers for the Ukraine army vs rebels? The rebels seem to be making the most advancements. It's in Russia's best interest to do so. They border the area - so, it's logical to assume that they are supplying weapons.

I don't buy they already had equipment. Not that much. Also, there were already Russian general there including Girkin. All the logic points to these theories to being probable facts. Nothing else makes sense.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

That's my theory on why all the fakes.

You mean they show all the fakes to lose their own credibility and to confirm that there is no Russian troops in Ukraine?
Does Kiev do all the fakes for the same reason?

Originally Posted by hddscan

You mean they show all the fakes to lose their own credibility and to confirm that there is no Russian troops in Ukraine?
Does Kiev do all the fakes for the same reason?

Oh, so every image or example is a fake? Putinoid logic again - Russian/rebel source true - everything else is fake/false.

I don't know of any Kiev fakes. They're all fakes according to you. Anything that comes from the other parts of Ukraine (Kiev or otherwise) is a fake - by definition. It's a waste of time answering your nonsense.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Why does there seem to be an endless supply of military equipment and weapons in that region?

Because there are a lot of weapons left from USSR times
As a person who was on several military storage sites I can tell you that there are a lot of weapons stored, some even from before WWII. They don't exist on paper but they do exist in real life.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Oh, so every image or example is a fake?

I don't know that but I haven't seen any which are not fake.
For example:
Footage of BUK showed by Kiev claiming that it's rebels'/Russian - confirmed to be filmed on Ukrainian-controlled sites.
Satellite images from Pentagon, with crayon drawings - confirmed to be fake
Latest satellite images don't even prove anything, it's just black spots of something on it, not even have shapes of vehicles
Germany footage - it's from 2008
US senate pictures - again, from 2008
Crater analysis - is not a proof, per article.

Do you know anything else?

Last thing I'll say here for now: My friend just made these points:
OSCE said that Russians have transported weapons to Donbass
Russian media has confirmed there are Russian volunteers/mercenaries fighting in Donbass - my own point -> if Putin didn't want that, they would not do it...how many Russian citizens defy Putin so easily?
population of territories controlled by separatists is about 4 million people. The population of Ukraine is about 40 million people now.

So, Donbass armies can keep making the Ukr army retreat repeadedly? Without any assistance? Russians that support the rebels have not answered these questions sufficiently....they just turn around and make a complaint about Ukraine. I think they are separate topics.

Lastly, Russian soldiers rarely speak up about it - they fear losing their benefits...

Originally Posted by 14Russian

They're all fakes according to you.

I can back my words with links on investigations, just tell me which ones you'd like to see

Originally Posted by 14Russian

OSCE said that Russians have transported weapons to Donbass

Please give me a link to OSCE site confirming that, I was not able to find any information backing it. Maybe your friend wanted it to be true but it's not (sounds like US senate pictures all over again)

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Russian media has confirmed there are Russian volunteers/mercenaries fighting in Donbass - my own point -> if Putin didn't want that, they would not do it...how many Russian citizens defy Putin so easily?

If your question is: does Russia have an interest in this conflict? My answer is - yes, it does
Are there any volunteers from Russia in Ukraine? Yes, there are.

What does Russia want? Federalization of Ukraine, Donbass region in Ukrainian borders with wide autonomy. Guarantees of non-NATO status for Ukraine.
Russia won't put WMD on Cuba, so it's fair for Russia to demand some guarantees for no NATO forces on Russian borders, that's my opinion.
No need to fight over it

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Putinoid logic again - Russian/rebel source true - everything else is fake/false.

Also, please refrain from personal attacks they don't make you look more credible, quite the opposite.
And I think people get banned for that

Originally Posted by 14Russian

So, Donbass armies can keep making the Ukr army retreat repeadedly?

Again, not true (already wrote to Lampada about that)
Ukrainian army was advancing Spring-Summer of 2014 until they lost a huge battle near Illovaysk.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Without any assistance?

There is assistance but no weapons and no troops

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Lastly, Russian soldiers rarely speak up about it - they fear losing their benefits...

This is a little bit unclear to me. What do Russian soldiers rarely speak of?
About Ukraine?
But they rarely speak of anything not only Ukraine it's how Russian army is, it's all secrets

Originally Posted by hddscan

Also, please refrain from personal attacks they don't make you look more credible, quite the opposite.
And I think people get banned for that

Then, you'll probably get banned soon? I only posted a truth.

'Again, not true (already wrote to Lampada about that)
Ukrainian army was advancing Spring-Summer of 2014 until they lost a huge battle near Illovaysk.'
So what? I'm talking about the endless advancement and presence of heavy military that is ongoing. The population differences etc. etc. So, you have no answer as I suspected. Thank you.

Originally Posted by hddscan

Please give me a link to OSCE site confirming that, I was not able to find any information backing it. Maybe your friend wanted it to be true but it's not (sounds like US senate pictures all over again)

If your question is: does Russia have an interest in this conflict? My answer is - yes, it does
Are there any volunteers from Russia in Ukraine? Yes, there are.

What does Russia want? Federalization of Ukraine, Donbass region in Ukrainian borders with wide autonomy. Guarantees of non-NATO status for Ukraine.
Russia won't put WMD on Cuba, so it's fair for Russia to demand some guarantees for no NATO forces on Russian borders, that's my opinion.
No need to fight over it

RUSSIAN MEDIA FALSIFYING AND DISTORTING OSCE STATEMENTS | Ukraine Crisis Media Center | UACRISIS.ORG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZcapxK8O-g

'No Russian troops in Ukraine': Moscow's OSCE rep responds to Kiev's claims — RT News

It depends who you believe but an explanation is in the first link. I'll have to see what info my friend has but I'm tired of wasting time with you - constant lies.

Another false allegation by the rebels. No wonder, no one wants to believe Kremlin media. So, my argument stands and is very reasonable: 1. Pro-Putin people refuse to believe anything other than pro-Kremlin/Putin information. Norossiya/rebel side always says the truth; never lies, according to them. Any other source is a lie. This is their logic in a nutshell. They think everyone else is ignorant or lies. Blah, blah, blah.... heard it before.

https://translate.googleusercontent....w-76cOT_yhznMQ

One example of the rebel BS. I'm sure there's a lot more examples and if someone who wasn't pro-Putin on this site, they probably know of some (given their proximity to the situation and native language). But, there's only pro-Putin Russian speakers on this topic here. So, why bother, I say....