Thread: Future of Eastern Ukraine? / Будущее Восточной Украины?

I voted for the choice that allows both the east and the west to win something. Why? Because this is a struggle between the US, the EU, and Russia to gain advantages in Ukraine. The Ukrainian people that are suffering for this arent even playing the game. And I think what a lot of people don't understand is that they are real people with real families, dealing with a dangerous situation that only they understand.
It's very easy for me to sit at my desk and type posts about Ukraine when the most disturbing thing happening in my world is a small thunderstorm outside. Now that's something I can discuss because I'm here and I can see it and feel it. So, should I call what's happening in Donetsk a "freak show"? Or maybe I should just blame Russia for everything bad that happens in the world? That would be so easy for someone who isn't there and can only read about it in the news media. But they could be lying so how much do I really know?

People are saying that Russia has troops on the Ukrainian border to destabilize Ukraine. Really? If there was a revolution in Mexico, the US would have more troops, military vehicles, and warplanes on the Mexican border than it had in Iraq. And the US would leave them there till the revolution was over.
No country wants violence to spill over the borders into their country. That's something I know.

2. The US and the EU refuse to even discuss a Federalization of Ukraine. They also refuse to discuss Ukraine being a neutral country.
3. When Yanukovych was in power, the US and EU warned Kiev not to harm any of the protesters.
4. Hours after the US CIA Director visited Kiev, the new government sent the Ukraine military to attack the protesters in SE Ukraine.
5. After the US Vice President visited Kiev, those military actions against the protesters continued.
6. I haven't seen any news articles about Russian leaders visiting Kiev.
7. The Shell Oil Company and the Chevron Oil Company have strong interests in Ukraine... but only in eastern Ukraine. Monsanto has strong interests in west Ukraine.
8. A ton of money and resources left Russia in the 1990's. I have no reason to believe that the same thing won't happen in Ukraine.

It's a fantasy to believe that Ukraine will solve it's own issues. Russia has strong and legitimate economic and security concerns. And the US would gain a lot with it's new economic interests and the advancement of NATO.
With 2 of the most powerful nations on Earth fighting for advantages, I have very little reason to believe that Ukraine will have much to say about it's future.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

I voted for the choice that allows both the east and the west to win something. Why? Because this is a struggle between the US, the EU, and Russia to gain advantages in Ukraine. The Ukrainian people that are suffering for this arent even playing the game. And I think what a lot of people don't understand is that they are real people with real families, dealing with a dangerous situation that only they understand.
It's very easy for me to sit at my desk and type posts about Ukraine when the most disturbing thing happening in my world is a small thunderstorm outside. Now that's something I can discuss because I'm here and I can see it and feel it. So, should I call what's happening in Donetsk a "freak show"? Or maybe I should just blame Russia for everything bad that happens in the world? That would be so easy for someone who isn't there and can only read about it in the news media. But they could be lying so how much do I really know?

People are saying that Russia has troops on the Ukrainian border to destabilize Ukraine. Really? If there was a revolution in Mexico, the US would have more troops, military vehicles, and warplanes on the Mexican border than it had in Iraq. And the US would leave them there till the revolution was over.
No country wants violence to spill over the borders into their country. That's something I know.

2. The US and the EU refuse to even discuss a Federalization of Ukraine. They also refuse to discuss Ukraine being a neutral country.
3. When Yanukovych was in power, the US and EU warned Kiev not to harm any of the protesters.
4. Hours after the US CIA Director visited Kiev, the new government sent the Ukraine military to attack the protesters in SE Ukraine.
5. After the US Vice President visited Kiev, those military actions against the protesters continued.
6. I haven't seen any news articles about Russian leaders visiting Kiev.
7. The Shell Oil Company and the Chevron Oil Company have strong interests in Ukraine... but only in eastern Ukraine. Monsanto has strong interests in west Ukraine.
8. A ton of money and resources left Russia in the 1990's. I have no reason to believe that the same thing won't happen in Ukraine.

It's a fantasy to believe that Ukraine will solve it's own issues. Russia has strong and legitimate economic and security concerns. And the US would gain a lot with it's new economic interests and the advancement of NATO.
With 2 of the most powerful nations on Earth fighting for advantages, I have very little reason to believe that Ukraine will have much to say about it's future.

You have good points but you omit one crucial aspect. Ukrainians have not objected much to the American/Western interference (for whatever reason). I have discussed the issue with Ukrainians and urged them to be skeptical, cynical and suspicious (to put it mildly) with respect to the interventionist policy of the West. The 'pro-Russia' side is already but their bias is based on being pro-Soviet or pro-neo-Soviet. There's no other reason.

However, other Ukrainians see Russia interfering as entirely negative and the historical relevance justifies the large percentage of the population which are extremely concerned about Russia's interference of the situation. Even Russia's own citizens are neglected and under threat in Russia. Their rights are trampled. Many Ukrainians don't want this problem. They feel they can deal with the other problem, the West's meddling.
It's up to Ukrainian citizens to realize that neither side gives them a great advantage but they must have the right and freedom to figure it out. It's obvious and apparent that Russia (read Putin and friends) don't want to give Ukrainians that opportunity. The Kremlin had full control over Ukraine. They had two Presidential candidates that were Kremlin-friendly and more or less did what they wanted. They're not happy not to have that influence. Putin et al. doesn't care if this conflict blows over into violence. It's all strategy and trying to control. The other thing few people mention is how extensive the Kremlin-based media is. They seem to be everywhere. It's difficult to get real answers. But, when one realizes that no one wants these hostile 'pro-Russia' personnel there who have committed violent and aggressive acts, you can notice who is really at fault here. Ukrainians can deal with their own problems and citizens. So, Russia should let them. I am against the interim government and think many Ukrainians need to realize what is going on but Russia/Putin should stay out of it.

'2. The US and the EU refuse to even discuss a Federalization of Ukraine. They also refuse to discuss Ukraine being a neutral country.'
It would be good but how can they remain neutral or discuss Federalism if Russian provocateurs and unmarked soldiers are attacking their citizens?