Thread: The end.

Originally Posted by Hanna

After everything Russia's been through in your lifetime, is this really what you call "the end"?
I realise it's scary and incredibly frustrating for normal people whose money lose their value.
Russia hasn't been treated fairly by the West at all. But those really suffering are those in Eastern Ukraine.

Seriously, Serge, in 3 years time, you will be on the beach in Crimea, drinking Pina Colada with a very expensive electronic gadget in your hand, and the Russian flag over your head. You will smile as you remember this. That's my prediction.

The sad part of this is, where will a certain neighbouring brother country of Russia be? They'll be on their knees in debt to the IMF, Washington and exploited by the EU. That's the real tragedy in this.

So don't lose track of the bigger picture.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?
Now everyone's children get a tiny taste of what people went through in Russia, in the 1990s.

Have you read the thread?

Крупные продавцы одежды приостановили поставку в Россию

Крупные продавцы одежды приостановили поставку в Россию. Причина – валютный кризис и высокий курс доллара и евро. Магазины ждут отскока и не исключают на это время арендных каникул



Как сообщает газета «Ведомости», среди компаний, приостановивших поставки в магазины, такие крупные игроки, как Inditex (Zara, Oysho и Bershka), а также BNS Group, управляющая в России сетями Calvin Klein, Armani Jeans, Michael Kors и TopShop. Гендиректор последней рассказал, что компания взяла паузу до конца 2014 – первой недели 2015 года. Исключением стали бренды fast fashion, распространяемые через TopShop. По ним поставки продолжаются, хотя их объемы сократились.

«Цена закупки виртуальная, никто не знает, по какому курсу считать», – поясняет ретейлер, указав, что рисков пока нет – в Азии поставщиков много, и в случае необходимости может подстраховать Узбекистан.

Sela в настоящее время ведет переговоры по ценам, а обувная сеть Zenden утверждает, что некоторые ретейлеры отказываются от уже заказанного товара в Китае. По словам еще одного источника «Ведомостей», во время ноябрьского валютного скачка продавцы подняли цены на 23% в нижнем ценовом сегменте и это обрушило продажи. «Пришлось вернуться к прежней цене», – объяснил он.

Продавцы по разному пытаются решить вопрос с арендой. В регионах они просят сети об арендных каникулах, а в Москве компания Immofinanz (управляет ТРЦ «Золотой Вавилон» и «Гудзон») предложила временное снижение арендных платежей на индивидуальной основе, чтобы помочь сократить затраты из-за девальвации рубля.

В следующих сезонах потребители столкнутся со «стилевым однообразием» и сокращением количества товара по мере увеличения размера, говорит управляющий директор Esper Group Дарья Ядерная. Zenden сократила закупку обуви на весну/лето 2015 года на 20% пар. BNS Group скорректирует объемы поставок «как минимум пропорционально изменению валютного курса», говорит ее генеральный директор Денис .Богатырев. «Такого изобилия и вариативности, как раньше, в 2015 году не будет», – считает он.

Крупные продавцы одежды приостановили поставку - РБК

Originally Posted by Serge_spb

В следующих сезонах потребители столкнутся со «стилевым однообразием» и сокращением количества товара по мере увеличения размера, говорит управляющий директор Esper Group Дарья Ядерная.

Russia would finally find the art of online purchases. Lot's of things to chose from and cheaper than in retail stores.

Originally Posted by hddscan

Perhaps you just need to accept that you've been brainfooked by *neo-Soviet /Kremlin media* and the reality is not as they told you.

I fixed that for you.

I'm anti-West as they come but, woooooo, guess what, I can acknowledge the propaganda the Kremlin dishes out. You are lied to over and over so guess what that makes you, when you keep believing it? Putinboots and company have ****** Russia over and the country is not sustaining itself. There have been no plans or policies to sustain itself in case of a downturn in the major industries like the oil/gas sector. Western countries are not sustaining either but no one has confidence in the ruble. It's not a world-wide currency. Russia is not importing much other than a few resources/goods. Corruption is rampant. There are plenty of brainwashed zombies though that won't criticize the government to any real signficant extent. Even when the country is collapsing, there will still be citizens claiming the US boogyman did something. Yes, the US and other western nations do pull strings but for Russia's economy, at face value, that is on the government for having no economic policy that can sustain downturns. Not to mention the country giving itself to China, most recently. Talk about gullible... It's a real shame.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

I'm anti-West as they come

I'm sorry but I can't agree with you on that or maybe you hide it very well.
Moreover the way you present your information sources show that you are always getting one side of the story, which means you are not operating with facts but with propaganda only

Originally Posted by 14Russian

You are lied to over and over

Hmm, let's face the facts, shall we?
You asked to confirm where Putin says that he takes responsibility, I gave you that and please note that information sources you read did not give you that information i.e. they lied to you.
Now you still insist that I'm being lied to over and over but in reality it's the other way around. I guess that makes you what? Harperbot?

Originally Posted by 14Russian

There have been no plans or policies to sustain itself in case of a downturn in the major industries like the oil/gas sector.

True, and this is completely and entirely fault of Russian government - Putin's government and Yeltsin's and Medvedev's.
Although I finally see something good happening about that not that it is Putin's desire but rather inevitability of the situation.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Western countries are not sustaining either but no one has confidence in the ruble. It's not a world-wide currency.

Do I need to care about that? And why?
BTW I have no plans to keep my earnings in Canadian dollar and I bet I'm not alone. Does it make Canadian currency unimportant?

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Even when the country is collapsing, there will still be citizens claiming the US boogyman did something.

Hold to that thought
Now go and read all those precious MSM you've been referring to.
You'll find that they all claim loud and ambitious that the sanctions are working and Russian economy is hurt because of that.
So what is it? Do they work or do they not? You can't have it both ways.

Originally Posted by Serge_spb

Have you read the thread?

I have and I've also read every link. And I've been following the events in the western and eastern media.
And I totally agree with Hanna's post.

Originally Posted by Serge_spb

Крупные продавцы одежды приостановили поставку в Россию
Крупные продавцы одежды приостановили поставку в Россию. Причина – валютный кризис и высокий курс доллара и евро. Магазины ждут отскока и не исключают на это время арендных каникул

ФОТО

Как сообщает газета «Ведомости», среди компаний, приостановивших поставки в магазины, такие крупные игроки, как Inditex (Zara, Oysho и Bershka), а также BNS Group, управляющая в России сетями Calvin Klein, Armani Jeans, Michael Kors и TopShop. Гендиректор последней рассказал, что компания взяла паузу до конца 2014 – первой недели 2015 года. Исключением стали бренды fast fashion, распространяемые через TopShop. По ним поставки продолжаются, хотя их объемы сократились.
«Цена закупки виртуальная, никто не знает, по какому курсу считать», – поясняет ретейлер, указав, что рисков пока нет – в Азии поставщиков много, и в случае необходимости может подстраховать Узбекистан.
Sela в настоящее время ведет переговоры по ценам, а обувная сеть Zenden утверждает, что некоторые ретейлеры отказываются от уже заказанного товара в Китае. По словам еще одного источника «Ведомостей», во время ноябрьского валютного скачка продавцы подняли цены на 23% в нижнем ценовом сегменте и это обрушило продажи. «Пришлось вернуться к прежней цене», – объяснил он.
Продавцы по разному пытаются решить вопрос с арендой. В регионах они просят сети об арендных каникулах, а в Москве компания Immofinanz (управляет ТРЦ «Золотой Вавилон» и «Гудзон») предложила временное снижение арендных платежей на индивидуальной основе, чтобы помочь сократить затраты из-за девальвации рубля.
В следующих сезонах потребители столкнутся со «стилевым однообразием» и сокращением количества товара по мере увеличения размера, говорит управляющий директор Esper Group Дарья Ядерная. Zenden сократила закупку обуви на весну/лето 2015 года на 20% пар. BNS Group скорректирует объемы поставок «как минимум пропорционально изменению валютного курса», говорит ее генеральный директор Денис .Богатырев. «Такого изобилия и вариативности, как раньше, в 2015 году не будет», – считает он.
Крупные продавцы одежды приостановили поставку - РБК

First it was furniture and appliances, now it's clothing. But these are stores that sell a lot of imports so that should have been expected.
Buy Russian. Problem solved. Or buy online, that's always cheaper.
But I would like to see how it's spun in the Russian media - Not the US/UK/Finnish media being corroborated by the Dutch Moscow/St. Peterburg Times. That's a bit too expat to be Russian.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

I'm anti-West as they come but, woooooo, guess what, I can acknowledge the propaganda the Kremlin dishes out. You are lied to over and over so guess what that makes you, when you keep believing it? Putinboots and company have ****** Russia over and the country is not sustaining itself. There have been no plans or policies to sustain itself in case of a downturn in the major industries like the oil/gas sector. Western countries are not sustaining either but no one has confidence in the ruble. It's not a world-wide currency. Russia is not importing much other than a few resources/goods. Corruption is rampant. There are plenty of brainwashed zombies though that won't criticize the government to any real signficant extent. Even when the country is collapsing, there will still be citizens claiming the US boogyman did something. Yes, the US and other western nations do pull strings but for Russia's economy, at face value, that is on the government for having no economic policy that can sustain downturns. Not to mention the country giving itself to China, most recently. Talk about gullible... It's a real shame.

I may respond to that (bold) when I stop rolling all over the floor laughing...
It was Vladimir Putin that paid off the old USSR debts - including the hardcore Paris Club of Creditors - and made Russia one of the most solvent countries in the world.
So if anyone knows how to pull Russia out of a financial disaster, it's definitely Vladimir Putin. He already proved, after the 1990's, that he can.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

I have and I've also read every link. And I've been following the events in the western and eastern media.
And I totally agree with Hanna's post.

First it was furniture and appliances, now it's clothing. But these are stores that sell a lot of imports so that should have been expected.
Buy Russian. Problem solved. Or buy online, that's always cheaper.
But I would like to see how it's spun in the Russian media - Not the US/UK/Finnish media being corroborated by the Dutch Moscow/St. Peterburg Times. That's a bit too expat to be Russian.

I may respond to that (bold) when I stop rolling all over the floor laughing...
It was Vladimir Putin that paid off the old USSR debts - including the hardcore Paris Club of Creditors - and made Russia one of the most solvent countries in the world.
So if anyone knows how to pull Russia out of a financial disaster, it's definitely Vladimir Putin. He already proved, after the 1990's, that he can.

(Deleted. L.)
Yes, he'll just go in the shop and buy those nice Russian pants, jacket and shirt he's always wanted. Plus, the cars, appliances, furniture - all made in Russia? Of course, online shopping is getting bigger and it's a resource to get a good deal but while people are buying online, your neighbourhood shop is not making money. They probably shouldn't charge so much but then the markup is there because they bought online themselves. So, buying online HELPS you to some extent but that doesn't mean the economy will pick up. Most people know about ebay, paypal, alibaba but the economies around the world are still in free fall, Russia as one e.g., that is in rapid decline. Anyway, you don't think about these things. It doesn't matter if you are laughing about my 'anti-west' comment. I've posted about the West before when the topic is relevant.

I don't see the problem with using 'Western' sources when it's including neutral info - Putin spent most of his speech using a bear analogy so it's the same whether you use a Russian or a Western source. The data more or less is corresponding with each other - the ruble has still fallen.

«Да, падают цены на нефть. Но уровень жизни в России падает катастрофически не из-за этого. В Норвегии или даже Нигерии, которые примерно так же зависят от нефти, как Россия, валюта упала на 12–15%. Граждане не потеряли две трети сбережений и доходов. Нет паники на бирже, ставка не взлетает до 17%. Ведь дело-то в другом. Этой власти больше никто не доверяет. Ни внутри страны, ни снаружи. Даже те, кто на словах демонстрирует горячую поддержку курса Путина, бегут в обменники, пока курс доллара не вырос еще больше»
Ходорковский

Originally Posted by 14Russian

(Deleted. L.)
Yes, he'll just go in the shop and buy those nice Russian pants, jacket and shirt he's always wanted. Plus, the cars, appliances, furniture - all made in Russia? Of course, online shopping is getting bigger and it's a resource to get a good deal but while people are buying online, your neighbourhood shop is not making money. They probably shouldn't charge so much but then the markup is there because they bought online themselves. So, buying online HELPS you to some extent but that doesn't mean the economy will pick up. Most people know about ebay, paypal, alibaba but the economies around the world are still in free fall, Russia as one e.g., that is in rapid decline. Anyway, you don't think about these things. It doesn't matter if you are laughing about my 'anti-west' comment. I've posted about the West before when the topic is relevant.

I don't see the problem with using 'Western' sources when it's including neutral info - Putin spent most of his speech using a bear analogy so it's the same whether you use a Russian or a Western source. The data more or less is corresponding with each other - the ruble has still fallen.

No offense. It was just a comment I didn't expect but I don't take these discussions on a personal level. People always have different opinions.
You're right, online shopping wouldn't help the economy but at least it could help some of the people and that's more important, imo. But you're also right that I don't think enough about these things. For example, I wasn't aware that economies around the world were in free fall. Prices are rising faster here but dad's brokers know what to do when that happens so we only get gains and not losses - countries in free fall need better lawyers and brokers.
And yeah, western sources are fine for economic issues except they're so negative. I totally would rather read about bears and claws than how the whole world is exploding and everybody is doomed. Western economic media is scary.

Anyway, every media has it's own issues and it's own agendas. All the anti-Russian stuff in the western media is seriously annoying but so are all the American civil rights stories in the Russian media. It's all just a media war. That's why I wanna see both sides because it's not easy to get legit information out of all the propaganda that's happening on every side.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

No offense. It was just a comment I didn't expect but I don't take these discussions on a personal level. People always have different opinions. ...

I salute you for that!

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

No offense. It was just a comment I didn't expect but I don't take these discussions on a personal level. People always have different opinions.
You're right, online shopping wouldn't help the economy but at least it could help some of the people and that's more important, imo. But you're also right that I don't think enough about these things. For example, I wasn't aware that economies around the world were in free fall. Prices are rising faster here but dad's brokers know what to do when that happens so we only get gains and not losses - countries in free fall need better lawyers and brokers.
And yeah, western sources are fine for economic issues except they're so negative. I totally would rather read about bears and claws than how the whole world is exploding and everybody is doomed. Western economic media is scary.

Anyway, every media has it's own issues and it's own agendas. All the anti-Russian stuff in the western media is seriously annoying but so are all the American civil rights stories in the Russian media. It's all just a media war. That's why I wanna see both sides because it's not easy to get legit information out of all the propaganda that's happening on every side.

I'm not trying to be personal. I'm just trying to explain, why I believe there are very serious economic problems out there and in Russia, it is more grave than what many make it out to be. Just because I am negative, it doesn't mean I aim to offend. I mentioned in another post/thread, that Russian media spin the facts and information. Of course, the West does, too. It's another topic/theme, however, and I think the West is in trouble economically and there's data and info out there that can illustrate that, too. If you don't like to read something negative, that's your prerogative but that doesn't mean it's not the reality. If you want something clear and simple, then you can look at economics at a very summarized concept. Russia's main industry is gas/oil/natural resources sector and oil prices have just plummeted. Banks are in major trouble and just like the EU, for e.g., and the USA, the government feels it must bail them out. Russia imports most of its goods even compared to exports (oil/gas again) and prices are rising for ordinary Russians. The oligarchs don't like that they are losing money so they are asking to be bailed out.

It appears that very soon it`ll be fine to sell property in order to buy food. Like computer that I`m using right now.

Позвольте мне дать вам дельный совет. Если вы твердо решили продать компьютер из-за страха приближающегося голода, сделайте это немедленно, так как, когда начнется голод, ваш компьютер никому не будет нужен. И ни в коем случае не храните вырученные деньги ни в рублях, ни в долларах, ни в евро, ни в какой другой валюте. Покупайте муку, крупы, бобовые - эти продукты содержат все необходимые для человека питательные вещества и могут храниться очень длительное время. Также не забудьте про соль, спички и растительное масло. Печка-буржуйка, а также теплая одежда, одеяла тоже пригодятся. Желательно также приобрести топор - это универальный инструмент как для добычи дров из мебели, так и для самообороны и защиты припасов.

А если серьезно, я за свои 45 лет уже столько "концов всему" видел, что и реагировать лень.
Вот если Йеллоустоунский супервулкан проснется - тогда действительно будет "КОНЕЦ ВСЕМУ", а то, что сейчас происходит - так, рядовая неурядица.

We started under same conditions 20 years ago. Their economies used to be damaged by our communist regime as well. And - again - they had no such amount of natural resources. That`s even if you make me to believe in your "new colony" absurdity. If we had enough will - we could diversify our economy, invest in education and scienece, but decided to spent much of an incomes on military (like useless Cruisers in Medittarian Sea, Mistral ship etc etc), Olympics 2014, FIFA 2018 and other toys. We had all kind of possibilites and fcuked them up. (And why everyone is so sure that americans are the reason why countries like South Korea or eastern Europe states came from ashes to prosperity? They have got nothing else to do to feed 60 millions Polands? That`s a complete russian-propaganda nonsence, explaining our laziness.)

Чего-чего??? Откуда 60 млн. поляков?

Кстати, не объясните, почему при ужасном коммунистическом режиме население Польши уверенно росло, а после 1991 г. убывает? (Версия про то, что ужасные коммунисты запрещали средства контрацепции не канает по причине того, что это брехня, как и многое из того, что вы тут живописали о тяжелой судьбе простых русских.)

Originally Posted by SergeMak

...Кстати, не объясните, почему при ужасном коммунистическом режиме население Польши уверенно росло, а после 1991 г. убывает? ...

Открывшаяся свобода передвижения может сыграла какую-то роль? Только в Чикаго больше миллиона иммигрантов из Польши. В Западной Европе живёт более двух миллионов.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Открывшаяся свобода передвижения может сыграла какую-то роль? Только в Чикаго больше миллиона иммигрантов из Польши. В Западной Европе живёт более двух миллионов.

wiki says that Poles were immigrating massively starting late 19 century - History of the Poles in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Some numbers
Year Speakers
1910 943,781
1920 1,077,392
1930 965,899
1940 801,680
1960 581,591
1970 419,006
1980 820,647
1990 723,483
2000 667,414
Foreign-born population only

Judging by the numbers immigration actually slowing down not growing up, although I suspect that Poles simply started moving to the EU more

I decided to post anyway, because I realise that Basil77 and SergeMak are still around in the forum.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Покупайте муку, крупы, бобовые - эти продукты содержат все необходимые для человека питательные вещества и могут храниться очень длительное время. Также не забудьте про соль, спички и растительное масло.

Yes, too true, I tried that... I realise that it's not as dramatic or serious as your experiences in Russia in the 1990s But when I was at university I failed 1 term and didn't get the student stipend for the next term.

In order to continue, I ended up living for 5 months on oat porridge, broccoli, eggs, home baked bread and butter so I could pay the rent. My luxury food was eggs! I couldn't even afford cheese! It was impossible at the time, for a student to get a job, so I had no other choice but to try and survive for five months on practically nothing. If anything I was healthier than normal from this diet.

I can laugh at it now but it was really scary at the time, because the economy was incredibly bad at the time I was at university, and the state bureacracy was a nightmare. As a result, it was impossible to find a job that wasn't illegal.

Where I live, all dairy products are about 20% cheaper, because of the Russian import ban on EU food. Very noticeable. Everyone is trying out new luxury yoghurts, and dairy products because it got a lot cheaper.

Some good news. Today the ruble increased 8% against the dollar.
BBC News - Russia's ex-finance boss in crisis warning but rouble rallies

Also, China called Russia an irreplaceable strategic partner and agreements were made for currency swapping with the yuan. China wants to help Russia survive the economic crisis.
China Offers Russia Help With Currency Swap Suggestion - Bloomberg

Тема перелилась в оф-топик и разделена. См. Demographic dynamics under socialism + tidbits of Putin + related stuff

looks like Suadis' talks about low oil price are just talks, their budget shows oil price being $80 per barrel in 2015 - Oil Trades Above $60 on Signs of Saudi Confidence in Rebound - Bloomberg

Originally Posted by hddscan

looks like Suadis' talks about low oil price are just talks, their budget shows oil price being $80 per barrel in 2015 - Oil Trades Above $60 on Signs of Saudi Confidence in Rebound - Bloomberg

My understanding of the Saudi budget, was that Saudi is overproducing in order to deliberately hurt its own enemy Iran, and also Russia, perhaps to please the US. I got the impression that they said they were essentially going to continue doing that, and that they are prepared for the hit that their own economy will take. On the news it said somthing about how they were planning to use their "extensive currency reserves" during 2015.
So I heard that and felt really bad for Russia and Iran. Don't know what to believe now.

Also to mention an other alerting issue that jeopardizes the currency stability in Russia.
It smells 1998.

international reserves.JPG