Thread: The end.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

(Deleted. L.)
Yes, he'll just go in the shop and buy those nice Russian pants, jacket and shirt he's always wanted. Plus, the cars, appliances, furniture - all made in Russia? Of course, online shopping is getting bigger and it's a resource to get a good deal but while people are buying online, your neighbourhood shop is not making money. They probably shouldn't charge so much but then the markup is there because they bought online themselves. So, buying online HELPS you to some extent but that doesn't mean the economy will pick up. Most people know about ebay, paypal, alibaba but the economies around the world are still in free fall, Russia as one e.g., that is in rapid decline. Anyway, you don't think about these things. It doesn't matter if you are laughing about my 'anti-west' comment. I've posted about the West before when the topic is relevant.

I don't see the problem with using 'Western' sources when it's including neutral info - Putin spent most of his speech using a bear analogy so it's the same whether you use a Russian or a Western source. The data more or less is corresponding with each other - the ruble has still fallen.

No offense. It was just a comment I didn't expect but I don't take these discussions on a personal level. People always have different opinions.
You're right, online shopping wouldn't help the economy but at least it could help some of the people and that's more important, imo. But you're also right that I don't think enough about these things. For example, I wasn't aware that economies around the world were in free fall. Prices are rising faster here but dad's brokers know what to do when that happens so we only get gains and not losses - countries in free fall need better lawyers and brokers.
And yeah, western sources are fine for economic issues except they're so negative. I totally would rather read about bears and claws than how the whole world is exploding and everybody is doomed. Western economic media is scary.

Anyway, every media has it's own issues and it's own agendas. All the anti-Russian stuff in the western media is seriously annoying but so are all the American civil rights stories in the Russian media. It's all just a media war. That's why I wanna see both sides because it's not easy to get legit information out of all the propaganda that's happening on every side.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

No offense. It was just a comment I didn't expect but I don't take these discussions on a personal level. People always have different opinions. ...

I salute you for that!

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

No offense. It was just a comment I didn't expect but I don't take these discussions on a personal level. People always have different opinions.
You're right, online shopping wouldn't help the economy but at least it could help some of the people and that's more important, imo. But you're also right that I don't think enough about these things. For example, I wasn't aware that economies around the world were in free fall. Prices are rising faster here but dad's brokers know what to do when that happens so we only get gains and not losses - countries in free fall need better lawyers and brokers.
And yeah, western sources are fine for economic issues except they're so negative. I totally would rather read about bears and claws than how the whole world is exploding and everybody is doomed. Western economic media is scary.

Anyway, every media has it's own issues and it's own agendas. All the anti-Russian stuff in the western media is seriously annoying but so are all the American civil rights stories in the Russian media. It's all just a media war. That's why I wanna see both sides because it's not easy to get legit information out of all the propaganda that's happening on every side.

I'm not trying to be personal. I'm just trying to explain, why I believe there are very serious economic problems out there and in Russia, it is more grave than what many make it out to be. Just because I am negative, it doesn't mean I aim to offend. I mentioned in another post/thread, that Russian media spin the facts and information. Of course, the West does, too. It's another topic/theme, however, and I think the West is in trouble economically and there's data and info out there that can illustrate that, too. If you don't like to read something negative, that's your prerogative but that doesn't mean it's not the reality. If you want something clear and simple, then you can look at economics at a very summarized concept. Russia's main industry is gas/oil/natural resources sector and oil prices have just plummeted. Banks are in major trouble and just like the EU, for e.g., and the USA, the government feels it must bail them out. Russia imports most of its goods even compared to exports (oil/gas again) and prices are rising for ordinary Russians. The oligarchs don't like that they are losing money so they are asking to be bailed out.

It appears that very soon it`ll be fine to sell property in order to buy food. Like computer that I`m using right now.

Позвольте мне дать вам дельный совет. Если вы твердо решили продать компьютер из-за страха приближающегося голода, сделайте это немедленно, так как, когда начнется голод, ваш компьютер никому не будет нужен. И ни в коем случае не храните вырученные деньги ни в рублях, ни в долларах, ни в евро, ни в какой другой валюте. Покупайте муку, крупы, бобовые - эти продукты содержат все необходимые для человека питательные вещества и могут храниться очень длительное время. Также не забудьте про соль, спички и растительное масло. Печка-буржуйка, а также теплая одежда, одеяла тоже пригодятся. Желательно также приобрести топор - это универальный инструмент как для добычи дров из мебели, так и для самообороны и защиты припасов.

А если серьезно, я за свои 45 лет уже столько "концов всему" видел, что и реагировать лень.
Вот если Йеллоустоунский супервулкан проснется - тогда действительно будет "КОНЕЦ ВСЕМУ", а то, что сейчас происходит - так, рядовая неурядица.

We started under same conditions 20 years ago. Their economies used to be damaged by our communist regime as well. And - again - they had no such amount of natural resources. That`s even if you make me to believe in your "new colony" absurdity. If we had enough will - we could diversify our economy, invest in education and scienece, but decided to spent much of an incomes on military (like useless Cruisers in Medittarian Sea, Mistral ship etc etc), Olympics 2014, FIFA 2018 and other toys. We had all kind of possibilites and fcuked them up. (And why everyone is so sure that americans are the reason why countries like South Korea or eastern Europe states came from ashes to prosperity? They have got nothing else to do to feed 60 millions Polands? That`s a complete russian-propaganda nonsence, explaining our laziness.)

Чего-чего??? Откуда 60 млн. поляков?

Кстати, не объясните, почему при ужасном коммунистическом режиме население Польши уверенно росло, а после 1991 г. убывает? (Версия про то, что ужасные коммунисты запрещали средства контрацепции не канает по причине того, что это брехня, как и многое из того, что вы тут живописали о тяжелой судьбе простых русских.)

I decided to post anyway, because I realise that Basil77 and SergeMak are still around in the forum.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Покупайте муку, крупы, бобовые - эти продукты содержат все необходимые для человека питательные вещества и могут храниться очень длительное время. Также не забудьте про соль, спички и растительное масло.

Yes, too true, I tried that... I realise that it's not as dramatic or serious as your experiences in Russia in the 1990s But when I was at university I failed 1 term and didn't get the student stipend for the next term.

In order to continue, I ended up living for 5 months on oat porridge, broccoli, eggs, home baked bread and butter so I could pay the rent. My luxury food was eggs! I couldn't even afford cheese! It was impossible at the time, for a student to get a job, so I had no other choice but to try and survive for five months on practically nothing. If anything I was healthier than normal from this diet.

I can laugh at it now but it was really scary at the time, because the economy was incredibly bad at the time I was at university, and the state bureacracy was a nightmare. As a result, it was impossible to find a job that wasn't illegal.

Where I live, all dairy products are about 20% cheaper, because of the Russian import ban on EU food. Very noticeable. Everyone is trying out new luxury yoghurts, and dairy products because it got a lot cheaper.

Some good news. Today the ruble increased 8% against the dollar.
BBC News - Russia's ex-finance boss in crisis warning but rouble rallies

Also, China called Russia an irreplaceable strategic partner and agreements were made for currency swapping with the yuan. China wants to help Russia survive the economic crisis.
China Offers Russia Help With Currency Swap Suggestion - Bloomberg

Originally Posted by SergeMak

...Кстати, не объясните, почему при ужасном коммунистическом режиме население Польши уверенно росло, а после 1991 г. убывает? ...

Открывшаяся свобода передвижения может сыграла какую-то роль? Только в Чикаго больше миллиона иммигрантов из Польши. В Западной Европе живёт более двух миллионов.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Открывшаяся свобода передвижения может сыграла какую-то роль? Только в Чикаго больше миллиона иммигрантов из Польши. В Западной Европе живёт более двух миллионов.

wiki says that Poles were immigrating massively starting late 19 century - History of the Poles in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Some numbers
Year Speakers
1910 943,781
1920 1,077,392
1930 965,899
1940 801,680
1960 581,591
1970 419,006
1980 820,647
1990 723,483
2000 667,414
Foreign-born population only

Judging by the numbers immigration actually slowing down not growing up, although I suspect that Poles simply started moving to the EU more

Тема перелилась в оф-топик и разделена. См. Demographic dynamics under socialism + tidbits of Putin + related stuff

looks like Suadis' talks about low oil price are just talks, their budget shows oil price being $80 per barrel in 2015 - Oil Trades Above $60 on Signs of Saudi Confidence in Rebound - Bloomberg

Originally Posted by hddscan

looks like Suadis' talks about low oil price are just talks, their budget shows oil price being $80 per barrel in 2015 - Oil Trades Above $60 on Signs of Saudi Confidence in Rebound - Bloomberg

My understanding of the Saudi budget, was that Saudi is overproducing in order to deliberately hurt its own enemy Iran, and also Russia, perhaps to please the US. I got the impression that they said they were essentially going to continue doing that, and that they are prepared for the hit that their own economy will take. On the news it said somthing about how they were planning to use their "extensive currency reserves" during 2015.
So I heard that and felt really bad for Russia and Iran. Don't know what to believe now.

Originally Posted by Serge_spb

We broke the law. We became a non-grata country. We used to be a full member of civilized world, now the whole world detests us. Don`t mix "balls" with russian stupidity. That doesn`t matter what the population of Crimea consists of (actually tatars and ukrainians were at least % 25-40 of it - so they had to leave their homes). The land belongs to Ukraine, that`s what matters. With russians or without on it.

First of all, China, Brazil, India, Iran, Indonesia, South Africa and others couldn't give a darn about what happened in Ukraine, either way. The US and the EU doesn't constitute the entire world.

Secondly, a lot of people in Europe and a fair number in North America realise that mainstream media is telling a pack of lies about Ukraine.

They are only presenting only one side of the story, and they are presenting unsubstantiated rumours as facts because it suits their narrative. People need to hear both sides of the story with as much evidence as possible.

If anyone is guilty of creating the situation in Ukraine, it's those who spurred on the coup d'etat. I see no proof that the Russian state is pulling the strings of the rebels in Donbass. All it's guilty of is not sealing its borders or preventing its citizens from supporting the rebels. As for Crimea, how the hell can anyone be against something that 90% of the population somewhere supports? That's being against democracy and that's essentially the position somebody condemning Russia for Crimea would have to take. Also, such a person would have to be some kind of history and culture revisionist.

Russia has nothing to be ashamed of in regards to any of these events. The situation wouldn't even have occurred if Washington with the help of Brussels hadn't decided it wanted to oust Yanukovich. Russia didn't start it.

If you want to feel bad about something your country is falsely accused of, I am not going to stop you.

But it would make a lot more sense for you to feel bad about, for example, unfair treatment of people during the USSR times, or corruption and social injustices in modern Russia - these things are real and indisputable.
America's political accusations about Russia's foreign policy are lies - it's rather sad that you would choose to believe it.

Also to mention an other alerting issue that jeopardizes the currency stability in Russia.
It smells 1998.

international reserves.JPG

Also to mention an other alerting issue that jeopardizes the currency stability in Russia (International currency / exchange reserves).
It smells 1998.

international reserves.JPG

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Also to mention an other alerting issue that jeopardizes the currency stability in Russia (International currency / exchange reserves).
It smells 1998.

international reserves.JPG

I don't think so... It couldn't get that bad again.
Russia's come a long way since then and whatever else people think about United Russia party, they have some very good expert advisers who know what they are doing. Including financial people.

Also as many have pointed out, no other party will win an election in Russia, so whatever financial program is launched to tackle the problem, it will be allowed to run its course, probably good. Stability is good. That rarely happens in Europe, where everything is short term.

"This too will pass" It's a temporary set back for a country that cannot but get richer.
Just a shame that people will have hard times until this is over.
Of course I have never been through anything like this - but Russians have, and are tough!

In Stockholm where I come from, apparently 30% of all tourists are Russians (I didn't know that, but just read it in the paper) and they are the best spenders of all. This year, practically no Russians are coming. Apparently this will lead to huge losses in hotels and tourist shops.

First of all, China, Brazil, India, Iran, Indonesia, South Africa and others couldn't give a darn about what happened in Ukraine, either way. The US and the EU doesn't constitute the entire world.

Yes, but how can you live without friendly states on your borders at all? It's not happy situation for Russia.

Well, I don't live in Russia, but if I'm allowed to suggest.. I don't really think there's a reason to panic in the long run. Russia still has lots of potential in the 'comparative advantage' side of the street. For example, let's take a look what else Russia can export:


As we all know, the foundation of the EU economy is Germany, France, and Italy and Russian electricity is way more economical than in those countries, so make your own conclusion. Also, the infrastructure to deliver electricity seems to me being way cheaper and more reliable than the infrastructure to deliver something like natural gas and oil.

Also, the demand for electricity is constantly growing in the EU. (And, yes, the electric cars could help.. )

What do you think of that?

It's insane how electricity prices have gone up.
In my first flat in Sweden, it was included in the rent. Never even thought about it because it was so cheap. Now I am paying a small fortune for it.

Privatization was supposed to make the prices cheaper. It's achieved the exact opposite - and why should I care about "choice" in electricity - it's not like it comes in different flavours of colours. I want cheap electricity but right now I can choose between 5 providers in the UK - all of whom rip me off and charge outrageous prices.

The reason it's expensive in Denmark and Germany is because they use mainly eco friendly electricity. Denmark does use nuclear power - rather pointless for a small country with two neighbouring countries who both have nuclear power plants right on their border.

If Satan himself sold cheap energy Europe, regular people would probably buy from him. This "lets' not buy Russian energy" hysteria is completely driven buy the establishment. They know there is very little else they can do that would seriously hurt Russia. Even in the Soviet days, we bought oil and gas from Russia and now suddenly it's not ok anymore?! They'd rather have pensioners not afford proper food, than get cheap energy from Russia. Most ridiculous of all, there is serious talk about some pipeline under the Atlantic to import gas from North America instead. Our whole continent has gone bonkers. Let me out of this mad house