Thread: Edward Snowden and his stay in Russia

Originally Posted by Deborski

My suggestion for Snowden before he goes "sight-seeing" would be to find a really good plastic surgeon.

Second that!!!
Maybe with some plastic surgery, different specs, and a different hairstyle, he could pass himself off as a Canadian or Australian while in Russia. Ideally he should change his name too.

But on the other hand, being open about who he is, might be his best life insurance!

The USA sometimes kidnaps people as well, and ships them to the USA. Don't know how difficult it would be to kidnap somebody from Russia and transport them to the USA. But if they could only get him across a land or sea border to a pro-Nato country they'd be all set up to bring him "home" to stand trial.

I was just thinking how interesting it would have been if Snowden had been Jewish. Anyone who is Jewish at least on their mothers side, gets automatic Israeli citizenship just by asking - it's in the constitution of the country. But Israel is so pro-USA that they would have been in a real spot about what to do: Obey their sugardaddy or follow their own most central part of the constitution.

But as we know, he's not Jewish, so for now he'd better start learning Russian and gearing up for a Russian winter (what a shock to the system, after Hawaii)

Hope he starts a blog about his life in Russia!!!

Go Ed!!!

Sigh.... Throwing the toys out of the pram... I hope Russia is cooler than taking notice:

PressTV - US Senate mulling sanctions against Russia over Snowden

Originally Posted by Deborski

My cousin was CIA. Shortly after he retired he was in an "accident" which left him brain-damaged. He used to speak fluent Russian, but recently I tried to speak with him in Russian and he could no longer put a sentence together. Trust me on this: Snowden will NEVER be safe from US authorities.

My suggestion for Snowden before he goes "sight-seeing" would be to find a really good plastic surgeon.

I was more worried about Snowden learning too much about Russia. Even if he wouldn't give anymore secrets away, if somebody caught him they could interrogate him.
And yeah, I think he should get a new face and new ID and stuff. If somebody does catch him then they won't care what other Americans think. They will just put him in prison, torture him, and then have a show trial. If they don't kill him first.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Sigh.... Throwing the toys out of the pram... I hope Russia is cooler than taking notice:

PressTV - US Senate mulling sanctions against Russia over Snowden

Yeah, that's what our country does to control other countries. The best thing Russia could do is just find other countries to trade with. Don't give in to the dark side! That leads to McDonald's hamburgers!

One slightly positive thing to come of Snowden's revelations, was a bill put before congress to rein in the NSA's surveillance. The bill did NOT pass, unfortunately. But the closeness of the vote has given hope to the American Civil Liberties Union and others who are trying to take action, that in the future such efforts may result in a change.

I am feeling very pessimistic right now about the NSA ever changing its tactics, but who knows?

http://rt.com/usa/amash-nsa-congress-spy-591/

They don't stand a chance. The elite in the USA wants surveillance. Keep tabs on "terrorists" and any other potential troublemakers... Lord knows what they'll use it for in the future.

And they've got 100s of TV channels, the Hollywood establishment and most written media and radio behind them. Spreading their relentless message not just in the USA but around the globe.

What chance does a lone senator have against that?

They've already turned the US public against Snowden.

On privacy; in the UK and the USA we are marching at a fast pace towards 1984. Here in the UK you notice it everywhere; CCTV, constant checks of credit history, criminal history, security checks.

And all the other West allied countries are busy falling in line and lapping up the latest gospel from the USA via the "free" media.

Seriously, nothing short of a popular revolution could stop the new world order now. It's just around the corner.

Just the food for thought: it seems that the US goverment has suddenly changed its mind and now proposes to give him the temporary passport immediately, so he can return home.
But what is awaiting him there?

Originally Posted by DrBaldhead

Just the food for thought: it seems that the US goverment has suddenly changed its mind and now proposes to give him the temporary passport immediately, so he can return home.
But what is awaiting him there?

"Abandon all hope" waits for him there

America's latest strategy is to try to undermine Snowden's asylum claim by saying that he wouldn't be tortured or executed. That he is eligible for a "limited" US passport, so hence, there is no reason for Russia to give him political asylum. Talk about false representation and pathetically grasping for straws!

And in that case they have some explanation to do in regards to Manning and the Guantanamo prisoners, many of whom are guilty of nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time, following the wrong religion... Also, since Russia doesn't even practice the death penalty one can wonder on what grounds the US gives political asylum to Russian citizens, which is not unusual.

The United States' word is not worth more than loo paper when it come to politics, and their promises are either not kept at all, or have a short expiry date.

No trick or attempt at manipulation seems to be too low to get their hands on Snowden.
All the more reason for Russia not to cave in.

I don't give a rotten blueberry for Putin's public comments on this so far, but I'd love to hear what he says privately about this.

Originally Posted by Hanna

America's latest strategy is to try to undermine Snowden's asylum claim by saying that he wouldn't be tortured or executed. That he is eligible for a "limited" US passport, so hence, there is no reason for Russia to give him political asylum.

I think he didn't ask for asylum but rather for temporary asylum. If I understand correctly these are two very different things from legal point of view
It is much easier to get temporary asylum in terms of time and substantiations but at the same time you are very limited in your rights in particular country that grants you the temporary asylum

Originally Posted by Doomer

I think he didn't ask for asylum but rather for temporary asylum. If I understand correctly these are two very different things from legal point of view
It is much easier to get temporary asylum in terms of time and substantiations but at the same time you are very limited in your rights in particular country that grants you the temporary asylum

I think the reality is that he simply can't make it to South America in a legitimate way.
Maybe if Russia assisted him by hiding him a way on a boat or something. But as a passenger on a commercial plane under his own identity, probably not.
So the reality is that he is stuck in Russia.
It's certainly a really good thing he decided to transit in Moscow and not some NATO or EU country capital!

Originally Posted by http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/07/26/315728/no-torture-death-penalty-for-snowden/

Russia has so far refused to extradite Snowden as there is no US-Russia extradition treaty.

"Russia has never extradited anyone and never will," said Dmitry Peskov, a spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Reacting to the letter, Snowden's lawyer Anatoly Kucherena said that the Holder’s letter is not something new.

"Snowden's current situation is due to the actions of the US authorities, who annulled his passport," Kucherena said. "That is why he has ended up in the transit zone of the Sheremetyevo airport.

Originally Posted by Hanna

I think the reality is that he simply can't make it to South America in a legitimate way.
Maybe if Russia assisted him by hiding him a way on a boat or something.

Yeah, I can see the headlines: "Russia is smuggling US citizen to South America"
Snowden has taken Russia as a hostage and at the same time Russia seems to be he's only hope to survive

By coincidence, Putin's now going through divorce, so the one who wants to hear his "private words" about that issue has a unique chance to do so

Lol! And yeah, people here lie about everything and politicians are Pro Liars. The best liars always get the best jobs.
This is like the game "chess" and I'm sure that this is what's happening:

1. If they could convince the Russian government that Snowden isn't an "Asylum" case, then they could remove a lot of Snowden's protection.
2. If that worked, then our government could use the limited passport to convince Snowden to come home.
3. If that worked, then they arrest him and put him in a civilian jail with a lawyer.
4. Then the military demands that Snoden be turned over to them.
5. Then the government has a special hearing about that.
6. The military wins.
7. Snowden gets moved to a military prison and gets tortured and maybe even killed.

But our country has routinely ignored Russia's requests for extradition of all Russian criminals. So Snowden still stays in Russia.
Imo, Snowden is not dangerous to the USA. He made a lot of leaks but nothing has really changed that much. The government still makes agreements with other countries. We still had eggs, sausages, and waffles this morning and we will still go horseback riding tomorrow. So did it hurt anything? All it did was make the politicians work instead of playing golf, lol! Work is healthy.

Btw, Crime and Punishment was the perfect book for Snowden. He reminds me of Raskolnikov. Well, except with more money.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Btw, Crime and Punishment was the perfect book for Snowden. He reminds me of Raskolnikov. Well, except with more money.

And the US is the old lady?

Apparently Russia's stated that it "never extradites anyone". Good!

(I can't even describe how disappointed 'd be with Russia if it extradited Snowden. It would fall a mile in my estimation.
If he is extradited so Putin can maintain his relationship with the "American partners" then Russia is no longer a country I take seriously.)

It's been fully established that the USA tortures people, including at times, it's own citizens, but particularly citizens of other countries.
What a rotten lie to claim anything else! The USA has given political asylum to a number of Russian ex employees of security services, like that tiresome man who's always in American news, forgotten the name.

I am certainly not saying that Russia is a perfect country. No doubt there are all sorts of quesetions the leadership should answer. However, Russia is not holding itself up as a judge of other countries' integrity, it does not presume to say which countries are "evil" and it isn't preaching freedom and democracy to the world while invading nations and keeping bases across the globe.
So Russia is at least less of a liar and hypocrite in its foreign polcy.

Who knows, maybe Snowden can become a part of society in Russia and start supporting change in areas like corruption, in Russia.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Btw, Crime and Punishment was the perfect book for Snowden. He reminds me of Raskolnikov. Well, except with more money.

Haha, he's been reading that at the airport? Stylish choice. With the amount of time he's had there by now, he should have been able to make it through quite a few of the Russian classics. Hope he realises that he'd better get on with the language studies!

Originally Posted by Hanna

(I can't even describe how disappointed 'd be with Russia if it extradited Snowden. It would fall a mile in my estimation.
If he is extradited so Putin can maintain his relationship with the "American partners" then Russia is no longer a country I take seriously.)[/I]

Big words
Why don't you start with Sweden that collects fingerprints or the UK with their multiple "Security" and "Terrorism" acts, collecting DNA samples etc.?
Eventually you will run out of countries

Originally Posted by Doomer

Big words
Why don't use start with Sweden that collects fingerprints or the UK with their multiple "Security" and "Terrorism" acts, collecting DNA samples etc.?
Eventually you will run out of countries

Absolutely. Totally agree. It's disgusting. Unfortunately in Sweden, practically everybody is convinced that the state is good, and therefore it doesn't matter that they collect finger prints... Anyone who speaks up against it is essentially a tinfoil hat. I'd be a lone voice if I took up this cause! Not even the whole circus around Assange, or the torture flights to the USA made people wake up and realise that the state is in fact not good ANYMORE. In fact it's getting more evil every day. I think that if the Russian state started collecting fingerprints for passport every single person in the country would flip out, because they (sensibly) don't trust the state.

UK essentially has no political activism worth mentioning. But I've donated to Big brother watch and if they organise a demo, I'll go.
I stayed for a while outside the Ecuadorian embassy in support of Assange a few weekends ago as I was in the area.
The UK is essentially a poltically dead country though, and has been since the 1970s. Thatcher killed all political awareness in the UK.

But the topic here is Russia, and I'm just saying I won't get over it, if Russia extradites Snowden.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Absolutely. Totally agree. It's disgusting.

Correct me if I'm wrong
You don't like the country where you live but you didn't do anything about it
You using such big words for a country that you don't really know and where you don't live and you ready to blame them for something that country where you live already doing, and doing it big time
So in other words you live in a crappy place (which apparently disappoints you beyond you can explain) but continue to live there. I wonder what is the weight of your big words then?

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Btw, Crime and Punishment was the perfect book for Snowden. He reminds me of Raskolnikov. Well, except with more money.

Btw Raskolnikov went to the prison willingly

Deleted. L.