Thread: Edward Snowden and his stay in Russia

Originally Posted by Doomer

Correct me if I'm wrong
You don't like the country where you live but you didn't do anything about it
You using such big words for a country that you don't really know and where you don't live and you ready to blame them for something that country where you live already doing, and doing it big time
So in other words you live in a crappy place (which apparently disappoints you beyond you can explain) but continue to live there. I wonder what is the weight of your big words then?

Yes, that's right. I'm somewhat of a hypocrite like everyone else.
But note that you too are busy defending a country that you choose to leave.
So we're as bad as each other.

I have this view of Russia as a pole against some of the worst extravagances of the USA. Snowden is a symbol of that.
But if you, as a Russian think my views are offensive I'll back off this topic.
I happen to feel strongly about this particular issue, that's why I use "big words."

Originally Posted by Snowden's dad in his letter to Obama

Your decision to force down a civilian airliner carrying Bolivian President Eva Morales in hopes of kidnapping Edward also does not inspire confidence that you are committed to providing him a fair trial.

Yeah, despite all, Russia is probably one of the best countries Snowden can be in. If he really wants to be outside the reach of the USA, fully, then it'd have to be a completely closed off country - hardly exist anymore.

He DID put Russia on the spot a bit, by turning up there without prior warning.
I guess Russia is not an altruistic country nowadays, and nothing is done for ideological reasons. Simply geopolitical and economic motivations for foreign policy. Obviously this is inconvenient, since it puts a strain on the already fragile relations with the USA.

What I can't quite understand, is why a country Russia's size, packed with natural resources and neighbour with China even CARES what the USA thinks. It's not like the USA can actually DO anything against Russia. Militarily, economically.
Russia is a neighbour of Europe and China. I'd worry much more about these countries than about the USA. The USA seems to dislike Russia regardless of what it does, anyway.

But I hope Russia realises that Snowden is a hero to most people that work in IT, and to a lot of regular people across Europe and North America who still care about things like privacy and have some morals in their political views.
By taking Snowden in, Russia proves it's not a puppet state and it's not in bed with the agenda of the USA and NATO.

Deleted. L.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Yes, that's right. I'm somewhat of a hypocrite like everyone else.
But note that you too are busy defending a country that you choose to leave.
So we're as bad as each other.

I've never said that Sweden is "Disappointing me that I can't even describe how"
I try to refrain from accusations in things that I have no clue.

Originally Posted by Doomer

I've never said that Sweden is "Disappointing me that I can't even describe how"
I try to refrain from accusations in things that I have no clue.

Ok, point taken.
You disapproved that I made a strongly worded comment about how disappointed I'd be if Russia does not grant Snowden asylum.
Supposedly because in your view, it's not my business, or I am not sufficiently clued up about Russia.

You seem to have missed the fact that this is essentially a compliment on Russia.
While the European countries forced a plane to land on the mere suspicion that Snowden might be onboard, Russia is considering granting him asylum. Just proves that Russia is a country that still has independence. If it gave in to pressure it would be on the same level as the UK, Spain, Sweden and many other European countries that will just as "how high" when the US says "jump".

I guess my comment indicates I am holding Russia to a slightly higher standard when it comes to independence and foreign policy. With the European countries the race is already lost. There are US bases in many of them, they are NATO and/or EU members and they are about as independent as a dog in a leash.

How Russia handles the situation with Snowden will show if:

1) It's really a country that isn't afraid to stick to its own laws on asylum and make its own call on who deserves asylum.
2) If it really dares to go against the USA or if a few import deals, or whatever is at stake are more important.
3) How much spine Russia has.... If a tiny country like Equador can stand up against the USA and Russia refuses, then Russia might as well go ahead and apply for NATO membership right away. And Snowden might best commit suicide, because he'll not be able to make it to South America. Or perhaps start digging a tunnel to North Korea...

If you thought my earlier comment was some kind of insult against Russia, you were mistaken.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Ok, point taken.
You disapproved that I made a strongly worded comment about how disappointed I'd be if Russia does not grant Snowden asylum.
Supposedly because in your view, it's not my business, or I am not sufficiently clued up about Russia.

You seem to have missed the fact that this is essentially a compliment on Russia.
While the European countries forced a plane to land on the mere suspicion that Snowden might be onboard, Russia is considering granting him asylum. Just proves that Russia is a country that still has independence. If it gave in to pressure it would be on the same level as the UK, Spain, Sweden and many other European countries that will just as "how high" when the US says "jump".

You missed the point as well
Russia lives in very troubling times now and the last thing it needs is to stick another splinter to the USA's butt.
That "hero" Snowden takes a big dump right in the middle the White House and then runs for his life, takes Russia as a hostage and now asks for asylum. Russia does not need him, nobody needs him. He's like misbehaved teenager caught on smoking pot in the school tries to escape the punishment.
If Russia decides to give Snowden to the US I would think that this decision would be very hard but justified for Russia. Because his life is not worth the trouble for Russia, in my opinion.
(Deleted. L.)

Originally Posted by Doomer

You missed the point as well
Russia lives in very troubling times now and the last thing it needs is to stick another splinter to the USA's butt.
That "hero" Snowden takes a big dump right in the middle the White House and then runs for his life, takes Russia as a hostage and now asks for asylum. Russia does not need him, nobody needs him. He's like misbehaved teenager caught on smoking pot in the school tries to escape the punishment.
If Russia decides to give Snowden to the US I would think that this decision would be very hard but justified for Russia. Because his life is not worth the trouble for Russia, in my opinion.
(Deleted. L.)

That's a very inaccurate representation of what happened. The U.S. was caught and presented with proof of gross misconduct and violation of their own Constitution. American politicians and political figures implied that Snowden would NOT receive a fair trial. Snowden, understandably, would request political asylum.

The U.S. intimidated and blackmailed potential countries where he might want to go to apply and this is yet another violation of International law, is it not? There's a pattern of corrupt and unethical actions from the highest political office in the U.S. Furthermore, Obama has reneged on his promise to offer and provide assistance for whistleblowers. It's not a surprise that he's lied yet again. The U.S. has provided political asylum for citizens of other countries. They've accepted applications but have they suddenly extradited any of these citizens back to their countries of origin or where they received their citizenship/passport? How many have they sent back to Russia? So, why is it pertinent that Russia suddenly is obligated to 'break the rules?' The U.S. is the one caught and they want someone to pay.

There's also the theory that this was orchestrated (the CIA/NSA theories) but I won't get into that. This thread is full of nonsense and irrational arguments but I find it funny when Americans call him a traitor based on the most absurd arguments. At least, construct your arguments with something that makes sense and is valid.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

That's a very inaccurate representation of what happened. The U.S. was caught and presented with proof of gross misconduct and violation of their own Constitution. American politicians and political figures implied that Snowden would NOT receive a fair trial. Snowden, understandably, would request political asylum.

Why does Russia need to pay for the US political wars?

Originally Posted by Doomer

Why does Russia need to pay for the US political wars?

How will they pay? Do they always adhere with the U.S. position on everything? Is there some reason why they can't follow the law regarding Asylum requests like everyone else?
It sounds like a cop-out to me to try and promote your argument there.

Originally Posted by Doomer

Why does Russia need to pay for the US political wars?

Actually, I think the view that this has nothing to do with Russia is valid.
And I can see why regular Russians think it's more trouble than it's worth to annoy the USA by protecting Snowden.

Personally I wish it was MY country that had the opportunity and the will to take in Snowden... But I know it's not going to happen, so I hope Russia will take him in, and I'm thinking Russia should be less susceptible to US bullying than most other countries. It's not like the two countries were best friends to start with.

I don't agree with Doomer's view but I understand where he's coming from.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

How will they pay?

With money
PressTV - US Senate mulling sanctions against Russia over Snowden

Originally Posted by Doomer

With money
PressTV - US Senate mulling sanctions against Russia over Snowden

Money they borrowed from the Chinese though! That's all the actual money they've got, the rest is negative, or simply inflated pieces of paper. Nothing Russia needs, of value, is actually MADE in the USA. The electronics and all the rest of it is made in China! The USA hasn't got very long left as a super power. And when it's off the scene, the power will be with the Chinese, possibly Russia/CIS and/or the EU if it can ever agree on anything internally.

It will certainly count in Russia' favour as a symbolic point, if they treat Snowden well, if nothing else.
The USA is ONE country. There are plenty others, many of whom will judge Russia for how they deal with Snowden. Virtually all of South America for example! They currently have a high view of Russia. But that would change, if Russia sells out Snowden! Things are changing.

This is a chance to use a human example to show the world that Russia has it's spine back, it's a country to be reckoned with again and will not be bullied or be a puppet. Hope Putin considers all this.

If Russia lets economic interests alone rule its foreign policy then its no better than the USA, or the whoring EU countries on a bad day....

I think Russia should forget what the USA thinks and instead impress the South Americans, show the Chinese how its done, as well as Africans and Asians. I.e. Russia's back in business, has some principles and spine, and give asylum to whoever it pleases!

Edward Snowden can be an asset for the country, if Russia welcomes him warmly.

There are a number of countries that don't pursue any economic goals, let their people die from starvation while their wisest governments can justify their being in the office - pump the nations with ideological scum, especially the one about how bad the U.S. and "imperialism" are; the brightest examples of such countries are North Korea and Venezuela; why doesn't that dude seek asylum in one of those?

It's lucky that Russia is an industrialised country with a good defense.

Otherwise the DRONES would probably be zooming in on Sheremeteyvo airport right now, and anyone blown up as they neutralised Snowden would be collateral damage, just as is happening in Pakistan and Yemen.

Originally Posted by Hanna

The electronics and all the rest of it is made in China!

CPUs of many computers in the world are made in the USA
China doesn't have much of technology to produce competitive stuff on their own

Originally Posted by Hanna

Otherwise the DRONES would probably be zooming in on Sheremeteyvo airport right now, and anyone blown up as they neutralised Snowden would be collateral damage, just as is happening in Pakistan and Yemen.

That's a little bit too much of the black paint
How many unarmed US citizens did the US killed willingly?

Originally Posted by Hanna

By taking Snowden in, Russia proves it's not a puppet state and it's not in bed with the agenda of the USA and NATO.

That's one of the most important reasons. When I see the UK it just looks like America with different buildings and a different flag. But when I see Russia, I see a totally different country. It's awesome!
Western Europe does almost anything that America tells it to do. But not Russia because Russia isn't a loser.
If I went to a football game and the other team said "Well, we are going to lose today because the other team told us to.", I wouldn't pay to watch that game.

Originally Posted by Doomer

CPUs of many computers in the world are made in the USA
China doesn't have much of technology to produce competitive stuff on their own

Globalism can be a good thing but don't sell Russia short.
Russian Chip Gurus ARM Intel Rivals With Secret Weapon | Wired Enterprise | Wired.com

And who has been keeping the International Space Station manned? Russia.
America sent 5 expedition crews to the station from 2001-2002. Russia has sent 32 expedition crews to the station. And Expedition Crew 37 will be going there aboard a Soyuz TMA-09M in September.
Crews and Expeditions | NASA

That's one of the most important reasons that I want to live in Russia. They have the most epic space program on the whole planet. And yeah, Explorers 1 and 2, Cassini-Solstice, Kepler, and Curiosity are really cool too but those aren't manned projects.

Anyway, President Putin won't take orders from America. Imo, he will use Snowden to get support from other countries. And yeah, there is the possibility of sanctions but our government could lose a lot too if they push too much.
But at least Putin is taking time out to go hunting and catch 46 pound Pike and eat fish steaks! We've been doing that too! Well, except fishing. But rappelling trumps fishing, imo!
Vladimir Putin flees controversy, goes on shirtless fishing trip with Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev | National Post

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

That's one of the most important reasons. When I see the UK it just looks like America with different buildings and a different flag. But when I see Russia, I see a totally different country. It's awesome!

Haha, fundamentally the buildings are a bit older! And the culture is a bit different, in terms of people's behaviour etc.

But politically, sure. It's pathetic really. If America says it, it's true, as far as the UK media is concerned.
This country has a large number of American bases on its soil. The exact number is secret, we are not supposed to know. They are disguised as RAF (Royal Airforce) bases in most cases but once you get through the gates (I did once, for work) there isn't aBritish voice to be heard. All the staff apart from a few maintenance workers are American. The USA has a big base in North Yorkshire that spies on the UK and the rest of Europe; Telephone, internet and anything else. It's been going on for years but the lid was kept on it. Media never questioned what a foreign, absolutely massive spy central with mega satellite dishes, and space-age looking golfball tower was doing in the UK. Not even the locals knew much about it. Thankfully Snowden revealed what goes on there.

Our whole financial system here is hostage by the Fed, Goldman Sachs and the rest of them.

Frankly, the UK is so tied up with the USA that it might as well go ahead and apply for 51 state status in the USA.

We probably won't be able to affor free healthcare much longer, and free universities are already scrapped. Why would anyone want these things, when they can spend them money on supporting US wars, global domination quest and create civil wars in the Middle East....

And if Brits ever wake up to the true state of affairs there won't be a thing they can do about it. This country is practically under American occupation, it's just that most people aren't quite aware of it. One day they will be though, when the American empire comes tumbling down and the last veneer of democracy falls off.

Back to Snowden:

Imagine how many US spies are being dispatched to Russia right now!
He won't be able to nip to the cornershop for some milk without having 5 "NGO workers", "embassy administrators" and misc. employees of US corporations on his heels. Unless Russia helps him with a new identity.

Originally Posted by Doomer

With money
PressTV - US Senate mulling sanctions against Russia over Snowden

LOL! The American manufacturing industry is dying.

What are Russia's trading partners

http://stat.wto.org/CountryProfile/W...e=S&Country=RU

You see the USA on that list?

The subsequent posts here are getting worse every time. I guess you guys can argue about Snowden. Too many stupid posts bore me.

And if Brits ever wake up to the true state of affairs there won't be a thing they can do about it. This country is practically under American occupation, it's just that most people aren't quite aware of it. One day they will be though, when the American empire comes tumbling down and the last veneer of democracy falls off.

Horrendous revelations. It sounds as if the spirit of Emanuel Swedenborg frequents you and initiates into the most deeply hidden intertwines of current world history. But what comes next?Are Brits doomed to become the second rate slaves as Afro-Americans and Indians used to be or…? And how this chain of events can result into

The USA hasn't got very long left as a super power. And when it's off the scene, the power will be with the Chinese, possibly Russia/CIS and/or the EU if it can ever agree on anything internally.

Is there any connection with Snowden here?
I’m totally at a loss and eager to learn the truth.