Thread: Edward Snowden and his stay in Russia

Originally Posted by Hanna

Absolutely. Totally agree. It's disgusting.

Correct me if I'm wrong
You don't like the country where you live but you didn't do anything about it
You using such big words for a country that you don't really know and where you don't live and you ready to blame them for something that country where you live already doing, and doing it big time
So in other words you live in a crappy place (which apparently disappoints you beyond you can explain) but continue to live there. I wonder what is the weight of your big words then?

Originally Posted by Doomer

Correct me if I'm wrong
You don't like the country where you live but you didn't do anything about it
You using such big words for a country that you don't really know and where you don't live and you ready to blame them for something that country where you live already doing, and doing it big time
So in other words you live in a crappy place (which apparently disappoints you beyond you can explain) but continue to live there. I wonder what is the weight of your big words then?

Yes, that's right. I'm somewhat of a hypocrite like everyone else.
But note that you too are busy defending a country that you choose to leave.
So we're as bad as each other.

I have this view of Russia as a pole against some of the worst extravagances of the USA. Snowden is a symbol of that.
But if you, as a Russian think my views are offensive I'll back off this topic.
I happen to feel strongly about this particular issue, that's why I use "big words."

Originally Posted by Snowden's dad in his letter to Obama

Your decision to force down a civilian airliner carrying Bolivian President Eva Morales in hopes of kidnapping Edward also does not inspire confidence that you are committed to providing him a fair trial.

Yeah, despite all, Russia is probably one of the best countries Snowden can be in. If he really wants to be outside the reach of the USA, fully, then it'd have to be a completely closed off country - hardly exist anymore.

He DID put Russia on the spot a bit, by turning up there without prior warning.
I guess Russia is not an altruistic country nowadays, and nothing is done for ideological reasons. Simply geopolitical and economic motivations for foreign policy. Obviously this is inconvenient, since it puts a strain on the already fragile relations with the USA.

What I can't quite understand, is why a country Russia's size, packed with natural resources and neighbour with China even CARES what the USA thinks. It's not like the USA can actually DO anything against Russia. Militarily, economically.
Russia is a neighbour of Europe and China. I'd worry much more about these countries than about the USA. The USA seems to dislike Russia regardless of what it does, anyway.

But I hope Russia realises that Snowden is a hero to most people that work in IT, and to a lot of regular people across Europe and North America who still care about things like privacy and have some morals in their political views.
By taking Snowden in, Russia proves it's not a puppet state and it's not in bed with the agenda of the USA and NATO.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Yes, that's right. I'm somewhat of a hypocrite like everyone else.
But note that you too are busy defending a country that you choose to leave.
So we're as bad as each other.

I've never said that Sweden is "Disappointing me that I can't even describe how"
I try to refrain from accusations in things that I have no clue.

Originally Posted by Doomer

I've never said that Sweden is "Disappointing me that I can't even describe how"
I try to refrain from accusations in things that I have no clue.

Ok, point taken.
You disapproved that I made a strongly worded comment about how disappointed I'd be if Russia does not grant Snowden asylum.
Supposedly because in your view, it's not my business, or I am not sufficiently clued up about Russia.

You seem to have missed the fact that this is essentially a compliment on Russia.
While the European countries forced a plane to land on the mere suspicion that Snowden might be onboard, Russia is considering granting him asylum. Just proves that Russia is a country that still has independence. If it gave in to pressure it would be on the same level as the UK, Spain, Sweden and many other European countries that will just as "how high" when the US says "jump".

I guess my comment indicates I am holding Russia to a slightly higher standard when it comes to independence and foreign policy. With the European countries the race is already lost. There are US bases in many of them, they are NATO and/or EU members and they are about as independent as a dog in a leash.

How Russia handles the situation with Snowden will show if:

1) It's really a country that isn't afraid to stick to its own laws on asylum and make its own call on who deserves asylum.
2) If it really dares to go against the USA or if a few import deals, or whatever is at stake are more important.
3) How much spine Russia has.... If a tiny country like Equador can stand up against the USA and Russia refuses, then Russia might as well go ahead and apply for NATO membership right away. And Snowden might best commit suicide, because he'll not be able to make it to South America. Or perhaps start digging a tunnel to North Korea...

If you thought my earlier comment was some kind of insult against Russia, you were mistaken.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Ok, point taken.
You disapproved that I made a strongly worded comment about how disappointed I'd be if Russia does not grant Snowden asylum.
Supposedly because in your view, it's not my business, or I am not sufficiently clued up about Russia.

You seem to have missed the fact that this is essentially a compliment on Russia.
While the European countries forced a plane to land on the mere suspicion that Snowden might be onboard, Russia is considering granting him asylum. Just proves that Russia is a country that still has independence. If it gave in to pressure it would be on the same level as the UK, Spain, Sweden and many other European countries that will just as "how high" when the US says "jump".

You missed the point as well
Russia lives in very troubling times now and the last thing it needs is to stick another splinter to the USA's butt.
That "hero" Snowden takes a big dump right in the middle the White House and then runs for his life, takes Russia as a hostage and now asks for asylum. Russia does not need him, nobody needs him. He's like misbehaved teenager caught on smoking pot in the school tries to escape the punishment.
If Russia decides to give Snowden to the US I would think that this decision would be very hard but justified for Russia. Because his life is not worth the trouble for Russia, in my opinion.
(Deleted. L.)

Originally Posted by Doomer

You missed the point as well
Russia lives in very troubling times now and the last thing it needs is to stick another splinter to the USA's butt.
That "hero" Snowden takes a big dump right in the middle the White House and then runs for his life, takes Russia as a hostage and now asks for asylum. Russia does not need him, nobody needs him. He's like misbehaved teenager caught on smoking pot in the school tries to escape the punishment.
If Russia decides to give Snowden to the US I would think that this decision would be very hard but justified for Russia. Because his life is not worth the trouble for Russia, in my opinion.
(Deleted. L.)

That's a very inaccurate representation of what happened. The U.S. was caught and presented with proof of gross misconduct and violation of their own Constitution. American politicians and political figures implied that Snowden would NOT receive a fair trial. Snowden, understandably, would request political asylum.

The U.S. intimidated and blackmailed potential countries where he might want to go to apply and this is yet another violation of International law, is it not? There's a pattern of corrupt and unethical actions from the highest political office in the U.S. Furthermore, Obama has reneged on his promise to offer and provide assistance for whistleblowers. It's not a surprise that he's lied yet again. The U.S. has provided political asylum for citizens of other countries. They've accepted applications but have they suddenly extradited any of these citizens back to their countries of origin or where they received their citizenship/passport? How many have they sent back to Russia? So, why is it pertinent that Russia suddenly is obligated to 'break the rules?' The U.S. is the one caught and they want someone to pay.

There's also the theory that this was orchestrated (the CIA/NSA theories) but I won't get into that. This thread is full of nonsense and irrational arguments but I find it funny when Americans call him a traitor based on the most absurd arguments. At least, construct your arguments with something that makes sense and is valid.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

That's a very inaccurate representation of what happened. The U.S. was caught and presented with proof of gross misconduct and violation of their own Constitution. American politicians and political figures implied that Snowden would NOT receive a fair trial. Snowden, understandably, would request political asylum.

Why does Russia need to pay for the US political wars?