Thread: Edward Snowden and his stay in Russia

Originally Posted by Hanna

(I can't even describe how disappointed 'd be with Russia if it extradited Snowden. It would fall a mile in my estimation.
If he is extradited so Putin can maintain his relationship with the "American partners" then Russia is no longer a country I take seriously.)[/I]

Big words
Why don't you start with Sweden that collects fingerprints or the UK with their multiple "Security" and "Terrorism" acts, collecting DNA samples etc.?
Eventually you will run out of countries

Originally Posted by Doomer

Big words
Why don't use start with Sweden that collects fingerprints or the UK with their multiple "Security" and "Terrorism" acts, collecting DNA samples etc.?
Eventually you will run out of countries

Absolutely. Totally agree. It's disgusting. Unfortunately in Sweden, practically everybody is convinced that the state is good, and therefore it doesn't matter that they collect finger prints... Anyone who speaks up against it is essentially a tinfoil hat. I'd be a lone voice if I took up this cause! Not even the whole circus around Assange, or the torture flights to the USA made people wake up and realise that the state is in fact not good ANYMORE. In fact it's getting more evil every day. I think that if the Russian state started collecting fingerprints for passport every single person in the country would flip out, because they (sensibly) don't trust the state.

UK essentially has no political activism worth mentioning. But I've donated to Big brother watch and if they organise a demo, I'll go.
I stayed for a while outside the Ecuadorian embassy in support of Assange a few weekends ago as I was in the area.
The UK is essentially a poltically dead country though, and has been since the 1970s. Thatcher killed all political awareness in the UK.

But the topic here is Russia, and I'm just saying I won't get over it, if Russia extradites Snowden.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Absolutely. Totally agree. It's disgusting.

Correct me if I'm wrong
You don't like the country where you live but you didn't do anything about it
You using such big words for a country that you don't really know and where you don't live and you ready to blame them for something that country where you live already doing, and doing it big time
So in other words you live in a crappy place (which apparently disappoints you beyond you can explain) but continue to live there. I wonder what is the weight of your big words then?

Originally Posted by Doomer

Correct me if I'm wrong
You don't like the country where you live but you didn't do anything about it
You using such big words for a country that you don't really know and where you don't live and you ready to blame them for something that country where you live already doing, and doing it big time
So in other words you live in a crappy place (which apparently disappoints you beyond you can explain) but continue to live there. I wonder what is the weight of your big words then?

Yes, that's right. I'm somewhat of a hypocrite like everyone else.
But note that you too are busy defending a country that you choose to leave.
So we're as bad as each other.

I have this view of Russia as a pole against some of the worst extravagances of the USA. Snowden is a symbol of that.
But if you, as a Russian think my views are offensive I'll back off this topic.
I happen to feel strongly about this particular issue, that's why I use "big words."

Originally Posted by Snowden's dad in his letter to Obama

Your decision to force down a civilian airliner carrying Bolivian President Eva Morales in hopes of kidnapping Edward also does not inspire confidence that you are committed to providing him a fair trial.

Yeah, despite all, Russia is probably one of the best countries Snowden can be in. If he really wants to be outside the reach of the USA, fully, then it'd have to be a completely closed off country - hardly exist anymore.

He DID put Russia on the spot a bit, by turning up there without prior warning.
I guess Russia is not an altruistic country nowadays, and nothing is done for ideological reasons. Simply geopolitical and economic motivations for foreign policy. Obviously this is inconvenient, since it puts a strain on the already fragile relations with the USA.

What I can't quite understand, is why a country Russia's size, packed with natural resources and neighbour with China even CARES what the USA thinks. It's not like the USA can actually DO anything against Russia. Militarily, economically.
Russia is a neighbour of Europe and China. I'd worry much more about these countries than about the USA. The USA seems to dislike Russia regardless of what it does, anyway.

But I hope Russia realises that Snowden is a hero to most people that work in IT, and to a lot of regular people across Europe and North America who still care about things like privacy and have some morals in their political views.
By taking Snowden in, Russia proves it's not a puppet state and it's not in bed with the agenda of the USA and NATO.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Yes, that's right. I'm somewhat of a hypocrite like everyone else.
But note that you too are busy defending a country that you choose to leave.
So we're as bad as each other.

I've never said that Sweden is "Disappointing me that I can't even describe how"
I try to refrain from accusations in things that I have no clue.

Originally Posted by Doomer

I've never said that Sweden is "Disappointing me that I can't even describe how"
I try to refrain from accusations in things that I have no clue.

Ok, point taken.
You disapproved that I made a strongly worded comment about how disappointed I'd be if Russia does not grant Snowden asylum.
Supposedly because in your view, it's not my business, or I am not sufficiently clued up about Russia.

You seem to have missed the fact that this is essentially a compliment on Russia.
While the European countries forced a plane to land on the mere suspicion that Snowden might be onboard, Russia is considering granting him asylum. Just proves that Russia is a country that still has independence. If it gave in to pressure it would be on the same level as the UK, Spain, Sweden and many other European countries that will just as "how high" when the US says "jump".

I guess my comment indicates I am holding Russia to a slightly higher standard when it comes to independence and foreign policy. With the European countries the race is already lost. There are US bases in many of them, they are NATO and/or EU members and they are about as independent as a dog in a leash.

How Russia handles the situation with Snowden will show if:

1) It's really a country that isn't afraid to stick to its own laws on asylum and make its own call on who deserves asylum.
2) If it really dares to go against the USA or if a few import deals, or whatever is at stake are more important.
3) How much spine Russia has.... If a tiny country like Equador can stand up against the USA and Russia refuses, then Russia might as well go ahead and apply for NATO membership right away. And Snowden might best commit suicide, because he'll not be able to make it to South America. Or perhaps start digging a tunnel to North Korea...

If you thought my earlier comment was some kind of insult against Russia, you were mistaken.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Ok, point taken.
You disapproved that I made a strongly worded comment about how disappointed I'd be if Russia does not grant Snowden asylum.
Supposedly because in your view, it's not my business, or I am not sufficiently clued up about Russia.

You seem to have missed the fact that this is essentially a compliment on Russia.
While the European countries forced a plane to land on the mere suspicion that Snowden might be onboard, Russia is considering granting him asylum. Just proves that Russia is a country that still has independence. If it gave in to pressure it would be on the same level as the UK, Spain, Sweden and many other European countries that will just as "how high" when the US says "jump".

You missed the point as well
Russia lives in very troubling times now and the last thing it needs is to stick another splinter to the USA's butt.
That "hero" Snowden takes a big dump right in the middle the White House and then runs for his life, takes Russia as a hostage and now asks for asylum. Russia does not need him, nobody needs him. He's like misbehaved teenager caught on smoking pot in the school tries to escape the punishment.
If Russia decides to give Snowden to the US I would think that this decision would be very hard but justified for Russia. Because his life is not worth the trouble for Russia, in my opinion.
(Deleted. L.)