Thread: Edward Snowden and his stay in Russia

Originally Posted by 14Russian

The guy uncovered unethical and unjust spying and surveillance on their own people probably breaking numerous laws (not to mention Constitutional). 1984, anyone?

And that makes him what, exactly?
He's a giant PITA for any country

BTW, technically there were no "spying", so the only thing that happen is "unethical behavior" of the government
But the guy broke some laws and committed treason in his country, that's a fact. And he's trying to "buy" his new life by publishing information related to other countries, doesn't look like a "hero" anymore, more like a "merchant"

Originally Posted by Doomer

And that makes him what, exactly?
He's a giant PITA for any country

BTW, technically there were no "spying", so the only thing that happen is "unethical behavior" of the government
But the guy broke some laws and committed treason in his country, that's a fact. And he's trying to "buy" his new life by publishing information related to other countries, doesn't look like a "hero" anymore, more like a "merchant"

I would also put it this way: there are really a lot of countries across the world where people are being spied on, and have no basic human rights; that dude, however, chose the U.S. for his "great mission" which makes him... well, an idiot

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I would also put it this way: there are really a lot of countries across the world where people are being spied on, and have no basic human rights; that dude, however, chose the U.S. for his "great mission" which makes him... well, an idiot

Yes, he's an idiot for exposing the Government and giving 'real proof.' He's an idiot for creating the predicament for himself that prevents him having any freedom of movement and being wanted by the USA who would probably end up putting him in prison. That is stupid, if you look at it that way.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Yes, he's an idiot for exposing the Government and giving 'real proof.' He's an idiot for creating the predicament for himself that prevents him having any freedom of movement and being wanted by the USA who would probably end up putting him in prison. That is stupid, if you look at it that way.

He chose a wrong target. There would've been no problem if he had chosen some third world sh@t of a country, and he knew that. He also knew he was going to ruin his life rather than actually help anyone with anything; it's obvious now almost no one in the U.S. gives a darn about what he did, except for those viewing him as a traitor; now, do you see it differently?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

He chose a wrong target. There would've been no problem if he had chosen some third world sh@t of a country, and he knew that. He also knew he was going to ruin his life rather than actually help anyone with anything; it's obvious now almost no one in the U.S. gives a darn about what he did, except for those viewing him as a traitor; now, do you see it differently?

'He chose the wrong target?' LOL! That is all you can say? What a joke. He's an American, working for top secret/security organizations of the USA and exposing their transgressions and breach of trust. "it's obvious now almost no one in the U.S. gives a darn about what he did." I hope you emphasize the word 'almost' but I can believe that.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I would also put it this way: there are really a lot of countries across the world where people are being spied on, and have no basic human rights; that dude, however, chose the U.S. for his "great mission" which makes him... well, an idiot

Didn't he want to open compatriots' eyes ? If we had such "dude" here in Russia, I would be sooooo happy.

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Didn't he want to open compatriots' eyes ? If we had such "dude" here in Russia, I would be sooooo happy.

The difference is that nobody has any illusions about Russia. Russia doesn't make itself out to be the perfect paragon for "freedom", liberty, democracy and all the rest.
America does! But the reality is the opposite.

I'd say all of Russia's "dirty laundry" is already out!
Regarding the past: All the dirt from the USSR came out during glasnost and in the 90s.

Perhaps there were people in the USSR before glasnost, who really believed propaganda and thought that the USSR was the most perfect country, more fair and righteous than all other. That's where most Americans are today, I think. They really believe their country is the best, when the truth is the opposite. They believe that the USA has the right to start any war it wants, and spy on anyone it wants.)

Regarding the present:

• All the modern day corruption in Russia and any conspiracies are discussed in the blogosphere, and reported in media in other countries.
• Russia is constantly accused in international media of starting wars it didn't start, discriminating against free speech, homosexuals and what not.
  Putin allegedly, has money in Switzerland etc. Many officials are corrupt.

So what is the big dirty secret about Russia that nobody knows? Everyone there is really an alien?

The difference is that the USA is claiming to speak for freedom, democracy and free speech. Russia isn't making any claims like that.

If anything, it seems to me, that many Russians are MORE suspicious and unhappy with their country than what's really called for. The 1990s just killed any drop of love they had for their country and now many are practically self-hating and imagine that anywhere else is better. You almost never see that with Americans, even though it wouldn't hurt if they got some perspective.

That's how it seems to ME from the outside. Maybe I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by Doomer

And that makes him what, exactly?
He's a giant PITA for any country

BTW, technically there were no "spying", so the only thing that happen is "unethical behavior" of the government
But the guy broke some laws and committed treason in his country, that's a fact. And he's trying to "buy" his new life by publishing information related to other countries, doesn't look like a "hero" anymore, more like a "merchant"

Why Edward Snowden Is a Hero : The New Yorker

No spying?!? LOL! I've read stuff from you on here before. I don't care if Baldy agrees with you. I don't have time to argue.

I'm glad that there's a lot of Americans who are against this - it shows how much they're hypocrites and proves I'm right about how the sheep tolerate anything their Government does.

I don't care if he's considered a hero. It's irrelevant.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

No spying?!? LOL! I've read stuff from you on here before. I don't care if Baldy agrees with you. I don't have time to argue.

So, you only care for your own precious opinion, which obviously bestows us with its enlightening wisdom

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Why Edward Snowden Is a Hero : The New Yorker

No spying?!? LOL! I've read stuff from you on here before. I don't care if Baldy agrees with you. I don't have time to argue.

I'm glad that there's a lot of Americans who are against this - it shows how much they're hypocrites and proves I'm right about how the sheep tolerate anything their Government does.

Well -- Americans may have a lot of media to choose from, but 95% and the most accessible media is giving the "mainstream", gov't supported line.
The majority of people will eventually fall for it.

So although they may have initially been shocked at the relevations, the campaign immediately started to:

1) Justify the NSA spying "It's protection against evil terrrorists who HATE FREEDOM and the American way of life... and pedophiles, do you support them....?"

2) Focus on the person of Edward Snowden, rather than the issue: I.e. "He abandoned his girlfriend who is good-looking and a dancer!" "He said XYZ in an IT forum 5 years ago", "He is just after the attention", "He's got mental health issues"..... I.e. blackpainting and general distraction from the actual topic.

3) Insinuating that "Putin is involved", "Russia is playing games and needs to be taught a lesson..." and generally using their ex arch enemy's completely incidental involvement as a distraction from the real topic.


So after a month of this, most people are duly distracted by the above point, concerned about appearing un-patriotic...

It's also very easy to hoodwink non-technical people on this technical topic. Making it sound less serious that it actually is.
The actual technology behind it, and the potential implication of this amount of spying is simply not within most people's grasp, from a technical perspective.

That's why this is so HUGE in the IT world where I work. Most people DO understand how truly sinister it is, and the absolutely mind-blowing implications. But for non-technical people it's understandable that it is hard to actually understand the problem.

They are building huge data centres inside mountains for this, for goodness sake. The scope is incomprehensible. They want ALL data, from EVERYONE.
It's a combination of the worst spying thriller and the most spooky dystopian sci-fi you can imagine.
Right now they can't decrypt and cross reference everything. But give it a few years, and they'll be able to use this data to pull out a full profile on anyone. Everything from their shopping habits, social life to political views.... Stasi (to mention this classic example of a spying org) couldn't have dreamt of this and they might actually have had ethical reservations about it... But not so in the USA!


Propaganda at its best, using "free" press... Most people don't see it happening.

Snowden did Americans a big, big favour at a huge price to himself, but sadly most Americans (just as he fears) are not in a position to appreciate it. Only somebody who seeks out alternative news sources and has the technical background to follow it, will be able to see the full picture.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Well -- Americans may have a lot of media to choose from, but 95% and the most accessible media is giving the "mainstream", gov't supported line.
The majority of people will eventually fall for it.

Actually, public opinion in the US has swung in favor of Edward Snowden. There were a lot of people calling him a traitor in the beginning, but as more information came out and it became clear just how vast the scope of government surveillance truly is, more people started calling him a hero. And these days, the majority of Americans already KNOW that the mainstream media is bullshit. There has been a rise of alternative news sources and citizen journalism, which on the one hand I applaud, but at the same time it also gives rise to a lot of conspiracy theories and fake news stories which garner more attention than they should.

Most of the people I know are like me - they gather their news from a variety of sources both foreign and domestic. In that way, we can deduce what is true and what is not true.

Poll: Americans say Snowden isn’t a traitor — MSNBC

Approximately 55% of American voters view Snowden as a “whistle-blower,” according to new Quinnipiac University poll. Only 34% consider him a “traitor” for revealing details on two of the nation’s top secret surveillance programs.

A majority view him as a whistle-blower in every subgroup–political party, gender, income, education, and age–except for African -American voters, among whom 43% call him a traitor and 42% a whistle-blower.

Researchers also spotted a “massive swing in public opinion” when it comes to how the public feels about spying programs in relation to civil liberties. Now, 45% of voters say the government goes way too far restricting civil liberties in regard to its anti-terrorism efforts. That’s a big switch from 2010 when 63% felt the government didn’t go far enough in its efforts to protect the country from terrorists.

It is clear that Snowden's revelations have also succeeded in getting people TALKING more about the police state we live in here. It isn't just the extremists talking about it either, now it has become a mainstream discussion. Everyone I know is talking about it, and everyone I know agrees that the NSA has gone too far.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Actually, public opinion in the US has swung in favor of Edward Snowden. There were a lot of people calling him a traitor in the beginning, but as more information came out and it became clear just how vast the scope of government surveillance truly is, more people started calling him a hero. And these days, the majority of Americans already KNOW that the mainstream media is bullshit. There has been a rise of alternative news sources and citizen journalism, which on the one hand I applaud, but at the same time it also gives rise to a lot of conspiracy theories and fake news stories which garner more attention than they should.

Most of the people I know are like me - they gather their news from a variety of sources both foreign and domestic. In that way, we can deduce what is true and what is not true.

Poll: Americans say Snowden isn’t a traitor — MSNBC



It is clear that Snowden's revelations have also succeeded in getting people TALKING more about the police state we live in here. It isn't just the extremists talking about it either, now it has become a mainstream discussion. Everyone I know is talking about it, and everyone I know agrees that the NSA has gone too far.

Deb, you've been so much talking about the "black-and-white thinking" lately, and here you just demonstrate another example of it. I for one have never thought of that guy as a traitor or a hero, I think those are too strong words for a guy like him. He just did something not very smart and got busted.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Deb, you've been so much talking about the "black-and-white thinking" lately, and here you just demonstrate another example of it. I for one have never thought of that guy as a traitor or a hero, I think those are too strong words for a guy like him. He just did something not very smart and got busted.

:shrug: I was quoting a poll taken of US citizens, so I am not sure how I personally engaged in "black or white thinking" here. My own opinion is that he's more hero than traitor. He broke the law, certainly, but sometimes there are higher laws which we have to abide by, which supersede petty legalities. A crucial factor is that Snowden did not sell the information for money. In my mind, that separates him from those who steal US secrets for the sake of making a personal profit.