Quote Originally Posted by bad manners
It can and does in every society.
Ok agreed, but a just society doesn't allow it. I guess the question is: Can a just society exist?" That's another debate.

Quote Originally Posted by bad manners
"Right" and "wrong" are subjective. Use more specific terms please. I, however, did not mean "right" or "wrong". I simply stated that groups did (and do) "violate" rights of an individual according to the laws established within those groups. For example, in most countries in the world it is illegal to have weapons of mass destruction "privately". Gross injustice, if you ask me.
I don't agree that right and wrong are subjective, but that is also another debate. I agree that groups do violate rights and laws support them. That goes back to the "just society" question.

Quote Originally Posted by bad manners
And then the society alienates them whenever it feels like that. That's precisely what I mean. The society has special rights that an individual has not.
Maybe I just disagree with the term "rights" here. Just because society has the ability to do something an individual cannot, doesn't mean it has a right to. We are going in circles on this one.

Quote Originally Posted by bad manners
Then I suggest that you familiarize yourself with this doctrine. As for "laissez-faire Capitalism", I do not see how it connects with human rights. This is a term for a special utopist model of economy. Get your terminology right.
It is not utopian any more than any other govermental system is considered utopian. It is a specific method of governing, not simply a term. Like democracy, communism, or a dictatorship. I don't think either of up understand eachother's view point on this subject. Kinda kills the debate.

Quote Originally Posted by bad manners
What you just said will suffice to deem you a die-hard totalitarian. In a liberal and democratic state, government is merely an agent of the people, it is elected by the people, is driven by the people and implements the will of the people. It is the people.
That's what I said. However, that goverment is based on human rights. Not majority rule.


Quote Originally Posted by bad manners
Ever heard about immunity? And how come that when a police officer pulls me over, whatever the reason, I suddenly lose my right to "move freely"?
Because the officer has to have just cause to pull you over. They can't just pull you over and detain people willy nilly.


Quote Originally Posted by bad manners
I have already replied to a similar "binary" argument. As soon as there are more Men, its simplicity becomes oversimplification.
I disagree, it'll be exactly the same. The problem, as you are pointing out, is enforcement of "proper interaction".

I guess this debate isn't going to go much further here. I'm satisfied with much of it, anyway. Fell free to post final comments or message me if you want but I guess the aguing is over.

Tim.