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Thread: "Cold" War: Who was the winner?

  1. #1
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    "Cold" War: Who was the winner?

    Dear All,

    This topic is to find out international public opinion. Cold war' winner is always a matter of opinion.

    I should be obliged to have you detached view.

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    There is no answer to it I guess. But just ad notum the USSR has collapsed. Maybe this is the consequence of that COld War. If we had tried to keep going on arming it would've been even worse because things had been reaching the crisis. It's all over I think.
    Пораскинул мозгами, теперь собираюсь с мыслями.

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    I don't believe there are any winners re. the cold war , except of course for the fatcats on both sides, who did well and continue to do well at the expense of others... I suppose US strategists got what they wanted: unlimited and practically unconditional access to the USSR's underbelly of strategically crucial republics. The US en EU arms companies rub their hands in glee, because the new standard in these republics is western gear. It is dead easy for any "western" "humanitarian" organisations to get substantial grants to work in these areas.

    Countries and people refusing to play the ball game are demonised consistently by mainstream "pro-market/democratic" mass media. Just look at Belarus.

    I think people from many various countries are responsible for this state of affairs. No country is perfect, and most people with wealth like improving on it at the expense of others, whatever country they are in.

    Sorry, I seem to have started ranting

  4. #4
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    Re: "Cold" War: Who was the winner?

    Мы Русские, проиграли эту войну. А победителей в ней и быть не могло.
    Слабый горбачёв начал развал, который до сих пор не остановить.
    Мир стал однополярным, США больше никто не сдерживает.
    Хотя, убив дракона, победитель сам становится драконом.
    У нас незаменимых нет.

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    Absolutely agree with garmonistka. I doubt there's a winners in the cold war. There's an obvious loser: the world. In the cold war times it seemed to be more stable and predictable place, than now. Anyway, "Cold war" is always better than hot wars.

    To Koba: Не-а, они всегда драконами и были. Но я надеюсь, что на каждого дракона найдется свой Ланселот.
    Кр. -- сестр. тал.

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    Re: "Cold" War: Who was the winner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Koba
    Мы Русские, проиграли эту войну.
    Agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koba
    А победителей в ней и быть не могло.
    Disagree. Где логика? У Вас получается "мы проиграли, но никто не выиграл". Запад победил, зачем розовые очки надевать.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koba
    Мир стал однополярным, США больше никто не сдерживает.
    Это не надолго. Свято место пусто не бывает.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koba
    Хотя, убив дракона, победитель сам становится драконом.
    Это мы что-ли были драконом? Совсем дисагри.

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    Re: "Cold" War: Who was the winner?

    Представте, что обе стороны применили ядерное оружие. Холодная война переросла в ядерную.
    Пусть оправдались все прогнозы,относительно ядерной зимы.
    Пусть СССР исчез, вместе с Европой. Над остальным миром наступила ядерная зима.
    Кто будет побидителем?
    У нас незаменимых нет.

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    В том то вся и соль, что война была "холодной". В горячей победителей бы не было, но они сумели победить и без обычного или ядерного оружия, потому, что это была совсем другая война - психологическая, информационно-пропагандистская. И они сумели ее выиграть. Противник (то есть мы) был полностью деморализован, верхи разложились и предали, так что бомбы и не понадобились.

  9. #9
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    You crazy kids probably don't remember, but the older folk probably do: there used to be a term used back in the Cold War called "balance of power." Politicians used to say it was good (publicly, anyway) that there were two superpowers because this "balance of power" was maintained at all times, and in the absence of this there would be a vacuum that would lead to a horrible increase in authority for the other with nothing to check its power. Whether or not this has happened you can be the judge of. This polarization of power was both stable and instable depending on how you look at it. On one hand the threat of nuclear annihilation of the planet by someone who could simply hit a few buttons, or perhaps a malfunctioning computer, loomed over everyone for half a century. On the other hand, people were so afraid of this happening that the conventional wars of the 19th century were all but avoided (and replaced by containment programs and illegal funding of foreign guerrilla/paramilitary groups)--although of course the creation of the UN also played a hefty role in this leaping progress of civilization that should not be understated. So are things better now or then? This and the question of who are the "winners" is hard to say, and subjective to the individual rather than the whole. Perhaps a more relevant question to ask is whether or not the Cold War is really over, or has just changed its name to "The Open-Ended Global War on Terrorism." Cold War spending/organization certainly never ended after 1991, nor did the Cointelpro BS that has simply shifted jurisdiction from the FBI to local JTTF/OHS branches.

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    I think the James Bond franchise was the real winner in the Cold War.

  11. #11
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    Were those movies popular in Russia at the time? I mean, I know they must've had them because Visotskiy wrote a song about James Bond, but were they liked?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike
    Were those movies popular in Russia at the time? I mean, I know they must've had them because Visotskiy wrote a song about James Bond, but were they liked?
    Do you know the song? All this song is about that nobody knew James Bond
    Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I

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    You are partially right. It was communism collapse. But I think this war seems to be endless (Dallas plan implementation, for examp., or Iraq war – SHOW and so on). As for arms race, Russia and most of former-soviet countries have no capacity for military-industrial complex development. Most of them must just listen and carry out what US and EU say to do. They have no choice. The most interesting they do nothing to change the situation. Russia keeps silence. Mr Putin says : Nothing wrong, everything is ok, Russia & US = friendship forever. Tell me what does it mean? Or maybe Russia in hibernation? Is it so funny politic game?
    Belarus Republic looks like a crazy, strongly blind drunk bear. Sometimes when I see Mr Lukashenko it seems to me there is a crazy house.
    As for “fat cats”, they all will play by humans lifes because of money. From time to time I ask myself: “If it is war, I have much money, being fat cat, will I plan the same games as the play. It is awful but I say “yes”.
    As for now, I could say that US is the winner and the whole world is the loser.

  14. #14
    mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus
    Quote Originally Posted by mike
    Were those movies popular in Russia at the time? I mean, I know they must've had them because Visotskiy wrote a song about James Bond, but were they liked?
    Do you know the song? All this song is about that nobody knew James Bond
    I know it, but I don't really understand it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike
    I know it, but I don't really understand it...
    Подумаешь, агентишко какой-то!
    У нас в девятом - принц из Сомали!

    Hey, Pravit, are you still there?
    Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I

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    it's a morass, dagnabbit

    does anybody else mourn the Cold War, in a way?

    The fall of the Iron Curtain sounded a death knell not just for totalitarian government in Europe (hurrah), but also for Western (and perhaps Eastern?) ideology. This, I think, was not such a positive side-effect. The mess were in now is a mess made of global plutocracy.

    Hey, at least we knew who the enemy was. And so did they.

    And it must have given people such a *frisson* to cross from one side to another. I've had many a Guy Burgess fantasy (not *that* sort of Guy Burgess fantasy!).

    Just a thought.

    As for the winner: sub-saharan Africa. The CCCP did wonders for literacy in those parts.
    А если отнять еще одну?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus
    Quote Originally Posted by mike
    I know it, but I don't really understand it...
    Подумаешь, агентишко какой-то!
    У нас в девятом - принц из Сомали!

    Hey, Pravit, are you still there?
    агентишко какой-то...

    Конечно вам стоит помнить, что вас удостаивает присутствия сам принц из Сомали. Однако, ему пришлось переехать в Киргизстан чтобы жениться на киргизстанской принцессе. Теперь можете его звать Великий принц чудесного рога Африки и бесподобной драгоценности Центральной Азии, который правит с твердой, но благожелательная, рукой, защитник всех Сомалцов и честный союзник Киргизстана, и т.д., и т.д., или по-краткому Принц Сомали и Киргизстана.

    Кстати, принцу Сомали интересно знать, что имеешь в виду с "у нас в девятом"....

    Что касается заявления господина joysof, принц Сомали благодарен добрым господинам из СССР которые ему учили читать и писать и говорить по-русски, и которые ему подарили чудесное количество оружий того умного конструктора автоматов, господин-товарищ Калашников, и прекрасный подарок весьма удобных реактивных противотанковых гранометов. Большое спасибо из самого принца Сомали.

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    Touche.

    But, then again, at least they can *spell* Kalashnikov these days.

    I'm not sure I hold with this notion that it's the guns which kill people.
    А если отнять еще одну?

  19. #19
    mike
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    As for the winner: sub-saharan Africa. The CCCP did wonders for literacy in those parts.
    It also introduced the radical new concept of not treating women like shit.

    I'm not sure I hold with this notion that it's the guns which kill people.
    Good. You two can battle it out in private messages all the live long day. Anything unrelated to Russian politics will be deleted.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pravit
    Кстати, принцу Сомали интересно знать, что имеешь в виду с "у нас в девятом"....
    Это не я. Это из той самой песни Выс.цкого. Имеется в виду, в девятом номере гостиницы. Спрашивай, если что в словах не понятно. В другом топике. Песня несложная и хорошая

    Маленькие исправления (не все). Думаю, это в любом топике можно

    >защитник всех Сомалцов

    Сомалийцев

    >господинам из СССР которые ему учили читать

    господам из СССР, которые [на]учили его читать

    >подарили чудесное количество оружий

    ...оружия. Оружие - слово только единственного числа. Примерно как aircraft.

    >того умного конструктора автоматов, господин-товарищ Калашников

    В этом случае надо склонять (родительный падеж) ВСЕ слова:

    того... конструктора автоматов, господина-товарища Калашникова.

    Кстати, я с Калашниковым лично встречался :P Он в Ижевске живет. Это Удмуртия, предуралье, 1000 км на восток от Москвы.

    >Большое спасибо из самого принца Сомали.

    ...от самого...
    Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I

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