Quote Originally Posted by bad manners
I am talking about the ability. You were very explicit about the ability, too: "There is nothing a group can do that an idividual cannot."

Moreover, I find this "right without ability" talk quite pointless. Who needs a right that can never be enforced?

Besides, a group might restrict some rights of an individual. For example, the right to "move freely" (for a criminal).
I was refering to rights in my statement you quoted. A group cannot violate anyone else's rights in the same way an individual cannot.

One always has rights. Regardless of whether or not they can, or choose to excercise them.
Groups are not seperate entities from individuals. Groups are made up of individuals and groups exist only because individuals have the right to associate with others.

A criminal is a different situation. When you violate the rights of others (commit a crime) you forfeit some of your rights (freedom, or even your life in the case of capital punishment).