Thread: An alternative view of the USA & some other countries

The "Empire of Evil" stuff definitely didn't sit well with Russians.
Soviet propaganda wasn't very fond of America either, but Reagan crossed the line.
That was the first time I felt like the USA was a real enemy, not just a bitter competitor.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Another famous video of Zhirinovsky (Warning, a lot of swearing!):

"Не сметь стрелять по Багдаду. Лучше вместе ...нем по Тбилиси!!"

Laughed my AZZZZ off!

Originally Posted by E-learner

The "Empire of Evil" stuff definitely didn't sit well with Russians.
Soviet propaganda wasn't very fond of America either, but Reagan crossed the line.
That was the first time I felt like the USA was a real enemy, not just a bitter competitor.

As an American I am very proud that Ronald Reagan was president of the USA. Not specifially for the "evil empire" stuff but for his whole conservative approach to his presidency.

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

As an American I am very proud that Ronald Reagan was president of the USA. Not specifially for the "evil empire" stuff but for his whole conservative approach to his presidency.

Scott

Ok, Scott, I can understand you perfectly well, he was a guy whos leadership made your country a Cold War winner blah, blah. More important for Americans, I think, he was a leader who greatly improved the level of life-quality in America. But have you ever think by what cost? The foundation of policy of blowing American financial bubble was founded by Reagan's goverment. Have you ever thought about how much money an average American family owes to China goverment? And how much your grandchildren will owe if United States will continue current policy?

Now that this has turned into a Reagan talk...

My country is probably even less significant than Hanna's (even if it is significant, it certainly can't be significant in a pleasant way for an American). The one bad thing that Iran has ever done to America is the hostage craziness in late 70s. Reagan did next to nothing to solve that problem, but he was lucky enough to have the problem solved at the beginning of his presidency. So in this way, we have somehow contributed to his popularity among Americans.

(Funny stuff: the monkey who is the current president of Iran was also among the students who took part in the hostage-taking. Reagan must have been grateful to him.)

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

.. the monkey who is the current president of Iran..

You are in Tehran and don't afraid to write such things? I myself as the majority of people on this planet think that this Ahmadinejad guy is a moron, but I thought it's very dangerous to say such things in Iran.

Originally Posted by Basil77

You are in Tehran and don't afraid to write such things?

Afraid? Of what? Trash-talking on the internet? Well, we've said infinitely worse things on the streets, a mere 5 meters from the Revolutionary Guards.

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

Afraid? Of what? Trash-talking on the internet? Well, we've said infinitely worse things on the streets, a mere 5 meters from the Revolutionary Guards.

I gather that all those talks about 'no freedom of speech in Iran' are just those -- talks? Somehow it restores my beliefs in the world order.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Ok, Scott, I can understand you perfectly well, he was a guy whos leadership made your country a Cold War winner blah, blah. More important for Americans, I think, he was a leader who greatly improved the level of life-quality in America. But have you ever think by what cost? The foundation of policy of blowing American financial bubble was founded by Reagan's goverment. Have you ever thought about how much money an average American family owes to China goverment? And how much your grandchildren will owe if United States will continue current policy?

I disagree with your financial bubble comment - please look into FDR and Woodrow Wilson presidencies. I do agree that the USA financial policy is a disaster. It is not just Obama and democrats. It is Bush and republicans also. See the election coming up in November for what direction America thinks we should be going in.

I think it's ironic that Ronald Reagan is being discussed in a "Liberties of the Russian people" thread. I know there were many factors in the collapse of communism but isn't Ronald Reagan one of them? We'll never know but if Carter won again and then followed by other "weak" presidents like Obama - would you be able to freely have a discussion on the liberties of the Russian people?



Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

I think it's ironic that Ronald Reagan is being discussed in a "Liberties of the Russian people" thread. I know there were many factors in the collapse of communism but isn't Ronald Reagan one of them? We'll never know but if Carter won again and then followed by other "weak" presidents like Obama - would you be able to freely have a discussion on the liberties of the Russian people?

Main reasons for USSR collapse were internal. At the end of USSR people didn't really believe in soviet ideals, propaganda etc. Everybody became cynic. But yes, maybe external factors played some role. Namely, maybe aggressiveness and insane rhetorics of Reagan prolonged USSR a bit more. He gave many good confirmations to communist propaganda. We'll never know...

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Main reasons for USSR collapse were internal. At the end of USSR people didn't really believe in soviet ideals, propaganda etc. Everybody became cynic. But yes, maybe external factors played some role. Namely, maybe aggressiveness and insane rhetorics of Reagan prolonged USSR a bit more. He gave many good confirmations to communist propaganda. We'll never know...

Can you please elaborate on the statement:

He gave many good confirmations to communist propaganda.

What did the propaganda say?

Thank you,

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

Can you please elaborate on the statement:

He gave many good confirmations to communist propaganda.

What did the propaganda say?

Thank you,

Scott

They said: "USA is our enemy. They hate us just because we are different, just because we are Russians. They want to destroy our country, split it into pieces. They call our country "Evil empire". All we want is to live in peace but they do not agree. They have military bases and nukes all around the USSR while USSR has no nukes near the USA. We propose mutual disarmament but they build SDI to be completely safe when they will bomb our cities. We have to unite against them to save our country and our lives. Just read what their president say and you will see. He hates us."

Funny that at the time of late USSR all of it was true. Sometimes even propaganda may be true.

Originally Posted by fortheether

We'll never know but if Carter won again and then followed by other "weak" presidents like Obama - would you be able to freely have a discussion on the liberties of the Russian people?

Well, Misha Tal seems to enjoy the 'free' talk, so why not?

I'm not sure the reasons for the 'fall of the communism' are quite obvious. Like, look at North Korea. All the so-called 'reasons for the fall' are still there (and perhaps there are even more), but the present regime seems to be rather stable. Some people think at the August of 1991 the SU was very close to abandon the Perestroyka and going back to the roots (=the strong dictatorship).

Having said that, I remember the early '80s and all I can tell is that the SU seemed to be preparing for a big war. It was apparent the SU couldn't match the SDI and the preemptive strike was required to save the regime. Gorbachev allowed a lot of ugly things to happen, but he didn't allow the big war to start.