Thread: An alternative view of the USA & some other countries

This is a spin-off of the thread "Liberties of the Russian people".

Originally Posted by Basil77

First, I don't think that the picture is strongly differ from any country around the world. All politicans are crooks and liars, didn't you know that? Second, Russia was run like that for centuries, patriotism has nothing to do with this, do you think that we never had some patriotic feelings?

I really don't think that all politicians are corrupt. It depends on what country you compare with. In several smaller countries in Europe there is practically no corruption among politicians. It's certainly not perfect, but there is no unholy alliance between business and politicians to rip off the people and manipulate politics, like there seems to be in the USA and Russia at the moment.
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Originally Posted by Ramil

You need to make a distinction between the country and the state. One can love his country but hate the state.

Dear Ramil and Hanna, it's like I've watching the conversation between a greek and a foreigner. The whole same stuff happens in Greece over the past few years. And yes, Ramil, you're sooo right as for the distinction between state and country.
As I have discussed with other russians as well, I've come to conclusion, that one way or another, the situation in your country is quite similar to mine. Everybody lies. People don't care about anything anymore, they're just struggling to survive, nothing else is important to them.
But I quite agree with Chaika as well. Many peculiar deaths have occurred among russian journalists. Therefore, Ramil, I guess that "somebody" cares after all about what is being said, or is going to be said... isn't it?
Anyway, it comes to a conclusion, that corruption is well established in Russia as well as in many other countries one of which is also Greece.

Originally Posted by Basil77

All politicans are crooks and liars, didn't you know that?

Absolutely true. This is not just a usual politician-baiting rant from Basil. It's a basic fact. Not a single politician has become a politician for the good of the public. Politics is an endless quest for power. And corruption is in the nature of power. There's no room for optimism.

Hanna, you originally come from one of the most democratic parts of the world, and live in one of the oldest continuous democracies. It's no surprise that you find Basil's (and Ramil's) views rather cynical. But a Greek, or an Iranian, would be much more likely to agree with them.

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Thank you , and for the record , I'm not comparing our country's . I'm just curious .

The "Empire of Evil" stuff definitely didn't sit well with Russians.
Soviet propaganda wasn't very fond of America either, but Reagan crossed the line.
That was the first time I felt like the USA was a real enemy, not just a bitter competitor.

The Axis of Evil is a myth - those countries are only "evil" towards their own citizens, if at all. But there might possibly be an Empire of Evil which thinks nothing of manipulation & deception, starting wars and placing nukes at its' bases across the world, supporting ruthless dictators etc, etc. Just as long as its corporations can continue to rake in the money, and its citizens can eat burgers and drive gas monster cars everywhere they go....

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And about my country being democratic: Yes; we've been "lucky" and are traditionally hard working and well organised. But the political correctness has exceeded all reasonable limits now and if it continues like that; our whole area will go to the dogs.

BUT: I am going back anyway though.. Can't stand London anymore. In April I am OUT of here --- hurrah, at last! And I am taking a big detour East before I go back to Sweden.. More about that in my MR blog that I am about to start.

Hanna, I don't know what country you come from, but if it's Sweden, then (no offence) you should understand that Sweden is not a major power in the world politics and it's very small with a tiny (relatively) population. That means Swedes have no ambitions on the world stage and they tend to keep to themselves. Hence the level of corruption is very low since it's always quieter in a tiny hamlet where you know everyone, than it is in a huge metropolis where many many many warring parties are fighting over influence and resources.

Russia on the other hand is 1) a major power player 2) is very rich in resources 3) has means to influence world politics 4) very huge and scarcely populated (which means people in different provinces do not really feel connected) And to add more to that, Russia suffered a total state and economy collapse 20 years ago (yes - it shook the very foundations of society and reshaped them - in a bloody and violent way). Also Soviet Socialism was an artificial construct, an experiment going against all human nature which severely traumatized and twisted your average Russian's mentality. Russians are recovering, but it's a slow process, it'll take tens of years (if not a hundred) to change something if nothing happens (like a full-scale war or a natural disaster).

Also Russia is an empire and all empires are very corrupt by definition. Also Russians generally do not associate themselves with Russia and its future. They hate their country and are always willing to sabotage the state (even if they themselves do not realize it). Also tomorrow doesn't look promising to Russians, so you really want to hoard as much resources as you can to secure your and your family's future.

But this stuff is really subtle. You wouldn't notice anything like that if you just came and lived in Russia for a while. You would find it very kind, calm and hospitable. I would say I feel much more freedom in Russia than in any EU state. In Russia noone cares about you as long as you're not a threat to others. You can be yourself, not someone other poeple want you to be.

America is too an absolutely corrupt and cynical state. The only difference is that its average citizen is wealthier and that it didn't have to build its economy from the scratch in the last 20 years, but if America experiences something similar to what Russia had in 1991, mark my words - you'll not recognize it and I certainly wouldn't want to be caught in the middle. It was a wonder that Russia remained a single state, America would not be so lucky.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Another famous video of Zhirinovsky (Warning, a lot of swearing!):

"Не сметь стрелять по Багдаду. Лучше вместе ...нем по Тбилиси!!"

Laughed my AZZZZ off!

Originally Posted by E-learner

The "Empire of Evil" stuff definitely didn't sit well with Russians.
Soviet propaganda wasn't very fond of America either, but Reagan crossed the line.
That was the first time I felt like the USA was a real enemy, not just a bitter competitor.

As an American I am very proud that Ronald Reagan was president of the USA. Not specifially for the "evil empire" stuff but for his whole conservative approach to his presidency.

Scott

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@fortheether: Ok you have every right to like Ronald Reagan even though few on the forum think very highly of him.... So give a practical example of something that he did that you think was good?

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Originally Posted by fortheether

As an American I am very proud that Ronald Reagan was president of the USA. Not specifially for the "evil empire" stuff but for his whole conservative approach to his presidency.

Scott

Ok, Scott, I can understand you perfectly well, he was a guy whos leadership made your country a Cold War winner blah, blah. More important for Americans, I think, he was a leader who greatly improved the level of life-quality in America. But have you ever think by what cost? The foundation of policy of blowing American financial bubble was founded by Reagan's goverment. Have you ever thought about how much money an average American family owes to China goverment? And how much your grandchildren will owe if United States will continue current policy?

Now that this has turned into a Reagan talk...

My country is probably even less significant than Hanna's (even if it is significant, it certainly can't be significant in a pleasant way for an American). The one bad thing that Iran has ever done to America is the hostage craziness in late 70s. Reagan did next to nothing to solve that problem, but he was lucky enough to have the problem solved at the beginning of his presidency. So in this way, we have somehow contributed to his popularity among Americans.

(Funny stuff: the monkey who is the current president of Iran was also among the students who took part in the hostage-taking. Reagan must have been grateful to him.)

Originally Posted by Hanna

I know my country is insignificant, and a lot easier to run than Russia

Don't be so agreeable. I think the world will be forever grateful to Sweden for Abba, Roxette, Europe and Ace of Base. There is something in Sweden that gives birth to greatest musicians.

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

.. the monkey who is the current president of Iran..

You are in Tehran and don't afraid to write such things? I myself as the majority of people on this planet think that this Ahmadinejad guy is a moron, but I thought it's very dangerous to say such things in Iran.

Originally Posted by Ramil

Don't be so agreeable. I think the world will be forever grateful to Sweden for Abba, Roxette, Europe and Ace of Base. There is something in Sweden that gives birth to greatest musicians.

You've forgotten about E-type! Really, Hanna, don't be so shy about your country. It's played a very important role in European history and in Russian history in particular. Moreover, I think that Swedish culture and Swedish people are great. Also I like the way how your country is run, I think it's one of the best and fairest societies on the face of Earth. My mom visited Sweden a couple of years ago and she literally fell in love in the country. So you should be very proud to be a Swede! !

Originally Posted by Basil77

You are in Tehran and don't afraid to write such things?

Afraid? Of what? Trash-talking on the internet? Well, we've said infinitely worse things on the streets, a mere 5 meters from the Revolutionary Guards.

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

Afraid? Of what? Trash-talking on the internet? Well, we've said infinitely worse things on the streets, a mere 5 meters from the Revolutionary Guards.

I gather that all those talks about 'no freedom of speech in Iran' are just those -- talks? Somehow it restores my beliefs in the world order.

Originally Posted by Ramil

Don't be so agreeable. I think the world will be forever grateful to Sweden for Abba, Roxette, Europe and Ace of Base. There is something in Sweden that gives birth to greatest musicians.

I have to agree with you on the musicians from Sweden. I love progressive rock and boy does Sweden have a boat load of great players.

Scott

[QUOTE=Hanna;209074]


@fortheether: Ok you have every right to like Ronald Reagan even though few on the forum think very highly of him.... So give a practical example of something that he did that you think was good?



/QUOTE]

He beat Jimmy Carter in the election.