Thread: About Cold War and more

Originally Posted by nulle

I was born in the USSR - and I consider it evil too...
USSR collapse was one of the best things in XX century - People locked up in prison of nations were finally free (but sadly many did not know what to do wih their newly acquired freedom).

Your expressed your views on this forum multiple times, and I believe that most people aware now that your view of the USSR is very simplistic and negative (not to say biased).

I was born in the USSR too, and I see it in much more favorable light. Sadly, the winners rewrite history (which is a natural order of things), and now most of its nicer aspects are forgotten or belittled.

I'd like to know (if anyone here can tell) what the level of "nuclear war hysteria" among Soviet citizens was at the time (the 50s-60s). Were they as concerned as Americans? I can't remember hearing about anything as extreme as American "home-made" bomb shelters, and later, in the 80s the atmosphere was very much relaxed, despite occasional talk about WWIII or American nuclear threat. We studied what we should do during the nuclear strike at school, but no one took it very seriously. The possibility of actual nuclear war seemed very small.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

I'd like to know (if anyone here can tell) what the level of "nuclear war hysteria" among Soviet citizens was at the time (the 50s-60s). Were they as concerned as Americans?

I can't tell for sure as I did not witness that, but my impression of the 50s-60s in the USSR was the euphoria of the achievements and an image that the US cannot match the USSR. It was more like: "they won't even dare".

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

I can't remember hearing about anything as extreme as American "home-made" bomb shelters, and later, in the 80s the atmosphere was very much relaxed, despite occasional talk about WWIII or American nuclear threat. We studied what we should do during the nuclear strike at school, but no one took it very seriously. The possibility of actual nuclear war seemed very small.

I agree. Also, I remember a joke about those classes was running - what should you do if you see a nuclear explosion? You should wrap yourself in a white bed sheet and start slowly crawl towards a cemetery. In general, people never beleived in the real possibility of the nuclear war.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

I agree. Also, I remember a joke about those classes was running - what should you do if you see a nuclear explosion? You should wrap yourself in a white bed sheet and start slowly crawl towards a cemetery. In general, people never beleived in the real possibility of the nuclear war.

I've got couple army jokes for you
Here is one
Почему при ядерном взрыве нужно класть автомат под себя?
Чтобы капли расплавленного металла не испортили форму
Here is another one
Почему при ядерном взрыве нужно ложиться ногами в сторону взрыва?
Чтобы видеть куда полетят части твоего тела

Very timely for this topic... got a message today that

"the school conducted a practice Public Shelter Drill (used to be called Code Blue) and a practice Lockdown Drill (used to be called Code Red). In weeks ahead, the school will conduct practice Inclement Weather Drills."

Sadly the Code Red has been used a few times for real with the schools my girls attend, both in elementary years and as recently as last week when a shooting happened near their school and the gunman was on the run.

Code Red is a term used to describe an emergency/crisis at a School facility. Code Red alerts staff that imminent danger exists inside or outside the building and requires moving to an immediate lockdown mode. It requires all students to be accounted for and under supervision. During a Code Red no one, including parents, may enter the building. During a Code Red the telephone will not be answered.

Code Blue is a term used to alert staff that an emergency/crisis exist at or near a School facility. It requires all students to be accounted for and under supervision.

Originally Posted by Doomer

I've got couple army jokes for you
Here is one
Почему при ядерном взрыве нужно класть автомат под себя?
Чтобы капли расплавленного металла не испортили форму
Here is another one
Почему при ядерном взрыве нужно ложиться ногами в сторону взрыва?
Чтобы видеть куда полетят части твоего тела

Q: "Why should you put your machine-gun UNDER you in the event of a nuclear explosion?"
A: "So that the drops of molten metal don't ruin your uniform."

Q: "Why should you lie down with your feet in the direction of the explosion* in the event of a nuclear blast?"
A: "So that you can see where the pieces of your body fly to."

*PS: Actually, I'm not 100% sure whether ногами в сторону взрыва is supposed to mean "with your feet towards the source of the explosion at Ground Zero" or "with your feet pointed in the direction that the blast-wave is traveling, away from the source at Ground Zero." Obviously, these are the opposite of each other.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

*PS: Actually, I'm not 100% sure whether ногами в сторону взрыва is supposed to mean "with your feet towards the source of the explosion at Ground Zero" or "with your feet pointed in the direction that the blast-wave is traveling, away from the source at Ground Zero." Obviously, these are the opposite of each other.

The first one

Those jokes actually based on real things
Because you are supposed to put your AK under you
And you are supposed to drop and lie on the ground with your feet toward the explosion if you see the flash

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Also, I remember a joke about those classes was running - what should you do if you see a nuclear explosion? You should wrap yourself in a white bed sheet and start slowly crawl towards a cemetery.

Yeah, and you know why "slow"? "So that you won't raise panic." xD

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

I'd like to know (if anyone here can tell) what the level of "nuclear war hysteria" among Soviet citizens was at the time (the 50s-60s). Were they as concerned as Americans? I can't remember hearing about anything as extreme as American "home-made" bomb shelters, and later, in the 80s the atmosphere was very much relaxed, despite occasional talk about WWIII or American nuclear threat. We studied what we should do during the nuclear strike at school, but no one took it very seriously. The possibility of actual nuclear war seemed very small.

Я помню только такие плакатики =)





Сомневаюсь, что у нас была такая же как в США паранойя. И, имхо, была огромная разница в подходе к пропаганде: грубо говоря, наши учили ненавидеть американскую угнетающую верхушку, а американцы учили ненавидеть вообще русских. Поэтому, невозможно представить в Советской Армии плакат "Убей Джона!", а плакаты "Убей Ивана!" на американских базах были.

Originally Posted by BappaBa

Я помню только такие плакатики =)

Сомневаюсь, что у нас была такая же как в США паранойя. И, имхо, была огромная разница в подходе к пропаганде: грубо говоря, наши учили ненавидеть американскую угнетающую верхушку, а американцы учили ненавидеть вообще русских. Поэтому, невозможно представить в Советской Армии плакат "Убей Джона!", а плакаты "Убей Ивана!" на американских базах были.

Ага, нас учили, что простые американцы не против сбросить оковы капитализма, но вот правительство им не позволяет

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

I was growing up (70's-80's), waiting for nuclear strike every day, and often saw nightmares.

I'm sorry to hear that. I guess moods could be different in cities that had big military bases and thus were considered to be among possible targets...

I was growing approximately at the same time and I did not care about Americans at all - apart from the weird stage at 5 or 6 years old, when I forced my mom to pretend that she was Reagan a few times, and then tried to persuade her to dismantle nuclear weapon. *facepalm*.

Me and my friends were much more concerned with Germans, who had a "history" of killing Soviet civilians indiscriminately in most unpleasant ways (like burning them alive). I remember planning the best place to hide if they decide to attack again. American threat seemed insignificant in comparison.

Originally Posted by BappaBa

Я помню только такие плакатики =)

[...]

Сомневаюсь, что у нас была такая же как в США паранойя. И, имхо, была огромная разница в подходе к пропаганде: грубо говоря, наши учили ненавидеть американскую угнетающую верхушку, а американцы учили ненавидеть вообще русских. Поэтому, невозможно представить в Советской Армии плакат "Убей Джона!", а плакаты "Убей Ивана!" на американских базах были.

I agree.

The last picture is hilarious (in the light of the previous joke). Is it a gravestone?
Actually that's the only tip I remember from these lessons: during a nuclear strike find a nearby ditch which is positioned along the direction of shock wave and lie down. For some reason it always caused laughing fits. )))

Originally Posted by BappaBa

грубо говоря, наши учили ненавидеть американскую угнетающую верхушку, а американцы учили ненавидеть вообще русских.

Well, how does that old song go again? Oh, yeah:

"Союз нерушимый республик свободных.
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь"

(I.e., While the угнетающая верхушка [oppressive elite leadership] of the Soviet Union was -- from the US point of view -- the major threat, it was them goddamn rooskies who built the USSR in the first place, as they brag about in their own anthem!)

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Well, how does that old song go again? Oh, yeah:

"Союз нерушимый республик свободных.
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь"

(I.e., While the угнетающая верхушка [oppressive elite leadership] of the Soviet Union was -- from the US point of view -- the major threat, it was them goddamn rooskies who built the USSR in the first place, as they brag about in their own anthem!)

Советский Союз представлял собой угрозу американскому господству в мире, а не самой Америке. Разница в пропаганде очевидна.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Well, how does that old song go again? Oh, yeah:

"Союз нерушимый республик свободных.
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь"

(I.e., While the угнетающая верхушка [oppressive elite leadership] of the Soviet Union was -- from the US point of view -- the major threat, it was them goddamn rooskies who built the USSR in the first place, as they brag about in their own anthem!)

off: раз не затирают "goddamn rooskies", то и я позволю себе побесчинствовать. =)

Неужели пиндосы учили определять кто есть клятый москаль, а кто бедный хохол и бульбаш? =)



Что при СССР, что сейчас: "Наташа, заткнись! Выпьем водки!" =)

Originally Posted by BappaBa

Неужели пиндосы учили определять кто есть клятый москаль, а кто бедный хохол и бульбаш? =)

Who can tell Rooskies apart from Ukies? You people all look the same, just like Chinks and Japs and Gooks... of course, the problem may be that слишком много телевизора вредно глазам, и поэтому у нас пиндосов слабое зреное.

But seriously, cheers to BarraBa for responding with good humor on this complex topic. (And thanks for introducing me to the word бульбаш, which I had to look up.)

Of course, it wasn't my intention to defend prejudice (even in wartime) or to deny that there was hateful Russophobia in the US during the Cold War.

But the point I wished to make with my reference to "Великая Русь" in the Soviet anthem was that, если бы столица СССР была не Москвой, а Бишкеком, то Сильвестр Сталлон в "Rocky IV" дрался бы не с блондином-славянином, a с "чёрным" киргизом-тюрком. That is, the Russophobia was based on the actual fact that ethnic Russians had dominated the Soviet Union. (And Russia had, of course, been an imperial power even before the Soviet revolution.)

At the same time, however, I think that Hanna greatly exaggerated the historic reality when she wrote:

There are thousands of American TV shows from that era with "evil Russians" plotting something nasty against nice Americans.

There was definitely "Soviet-phobia", and sometimes the "Soviet-phobia" became simple "Russophobia", for the reason I explained above. But, in my opinion, the caricature of "evil Soviets" was much less widespread in American popular media than Hanna implies; for there's a lot more to US cinema than Rocky IV and Red Dawn!

I would argue, instead, that US pop-culture (i.e., films and TV) typically recognized at least three categories of "Soviet people":

1. The truly good and intelligent ones -- who, of course, were desperate to defect to the West!
2. Those who were good at heart, yet remained blindly loyal to the inherently bad Soviet system because they'd been "brainwashed".
3. The evil ones who fanatically believed in the All-Powerful Soviet State and were happy to kill anyone who got in their way.

Absent from this scheme, of course, are noble-hearted and rational Soviet citizens who saw their country as "flawed but fixable" (like the US in slave-owning days) who believed that the Soviet sphere was truly worth defending as a counterweight to the US, and who envisioned two peacefully competitive spheres of influence.

Actually, this type (good-hearted and without delusions about Soviet abuses of power) wasn't totally unrepresented -- especially in science fiction, one sometimes found good and wise Soviet scientists or even KGB agents who teamed up with good and wise Americans for the common benefit of humanity, and each side learns to admit the flaws/limits/evils of his own system, etc. However, this was relatively rare, and more often, the American heroes would have to rescue the "heroic pro-American Soviets" and/or the "good but naive and helpless Soviets" from the "evil Communist fanatics".

I don't think there was equivalent bad portraying of Americans on Soviet TV.

Of course not! Soviet TV fully captured both the negative side of America -- such as unemployed workers and oppressed Negroes being sprayed with fire hoses -- and the positive side -- such as billionaire industrialists with yachts, limousines, and private jets. Fair and balanced, just like FoxNews.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

That is, the "Russophobia" was based on the actual fact that ethnic Russians had dominated the Soviet Union. (And Russia had, of course, been an imperial power even before the Soviet revolution.)

Hmm.. I think it's a bit of a (Western?) stereotype. The only way Russians 100% dominated the Soviet Union was an obligatory knowledge of Russian, since it was a state language. Generally Russians did not have any special privileges based on their ethnicity, no they were sole leaders in republican governments, which consisted largely of locals.
I've heard a theory that one of the reasons of such a swift demise of the USSR was exactly that - too much of ethnic and territorial integrity was allowed, so the transition from a 'Soviet republic' to an independent state was relatively easy: Soviet republics retained their "ethnic" borders, their national languages (which were also mandatory subjects at schools from grade 2 to grade 10), etc.

I'd like to add that "Soviet Russia" was usually a foreign concept to native "Soviets", because very few of them saw the Soviet Union as Russia - "Russia" was almost exclusively associated with Russian Empire, i.e. country before 1917.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Last edited by Throbert McGee; Today at 07:43 PM. Reason: Edited to add: I had to write this post in two parts because my laptop crashed...

CIA is watching you

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

I can't remember hearing about anything as extreme as American "home-made" bomb shelters, and later, in the 80s the atmosphere was very much relaxed, despite occasional talk about WWIII or American nuclear threat. We studied what we should do during the nuclear strike at school, but no one took it very seriously. The possibility of actual nuclear war seemed very small.

Perhaps it was part of a propaganda campaign to scare Americans by suggesting that it would be wise build their own bomb shelters. There are thosands of American TV shows from that era with "evil Russians" plotting something nasty against nice Americans. I don't think there was equivalent bad portraying of Americans on Soviet TV.

I remember the first time I saw such a film and was able to follow the plot. I was totally shocked at the prejudiced, ill informed and one dimensional portrait of Russians - I regularly saw Russian ferry passengers at my local metro stop, and had been in the USSR, so it was clear to me that the film was blatantly untrue in what it conveyed.

But how would an American living in the midwest watching the same filem have known?

But now it is almost as if the propaganda has become the official truth!

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

I can't remember hearing about anything as extreme as American "home-made" bomb shelters, and later, in the 80s the atmosphere was very much relaxed, despite occasional talk about WWIII or American nuclear threat. We studied what we should do during the nuclear strike at school, but no one took it very seriously. The possibility of actual nuclear war seemed very small.

Согласен. Истерии у нас не было. Хотя я школьником иногда задумывался о том, что "прилететь может". Думаю, что отсуствие истерии у нас и присутствием её у них объясняется тем, что у них демократия, и распределение средств бюджета на военные нужды зависит от избранников народа, которые зависят от настроения этого самого народа. А у нас это зависело от верхушки. Поэтому пугать население нашим правителям не было нужды.